Beds & Herts Regt. Middlesex Regt. tunic conundrum

[High Wood]

Yesterdays purchase from a man selling off a large chunk of his Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment collection.

My first thoughts were that is was wrong as officers' Red tunics were phased out at the begining of the Great War and that the Bedford and Hertfordshire regiments were not amalgamated until 1919. So why were there B&H buttons on a red tunic? Clearly collar badges have been removed and the eppaulettes have had their rank badges taken away but is was for sale at a remarkably good price so I bought it.

On closer inspection I found a tailor's label in an inside pocket which revealed the original owner's name. Lt.-Col. G. E. Barker and the date 6th May 1914. A quick search of the 1914 Army List revealed only one Lt.-Col. G. E. Barker, and he was serving with the 6th battalion Middlesex Regiment.

Further research showed that Gerald Edgar Barker was born in 1867, educated at Eton College and was first commissioned in to the 4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment on the 25th April 1885, promoted Captain 13th April 1889, Honorary Major, (6th Btn. Middlesex Regt.), 14th November 1900. He served in the South African War and was mentioned in Despatches (L.G. 29th July 1902). He appears to have been home service only during the Great War and on 14th November 1918 and now, Lt.-Col. he relinquished his commission on completion of the tenure of his command, and was granted permission to retain his rank and wear the prescribed uniform. He died on the 3rd July 1922 aged 54.

Now what is confusing me is that the Army List states that the Middlesex Regiment wore Lemon Yellow facings and that the Bedfordshire Regiment wore White facings, so why does a 1914 dated tunic of a senior officer in the Middlesex Regiment have the wrong colour facings?

Secondly, is there any legitimate reason why a pre Great War tunic should have been configured as a Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment tunic?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[manchesters]

Its also got Royal Artillery shoulder cords too, so quite messed about with I would say.

regards

[High Wood]

Simon,

can I ask what makes them Royal Artillery shoulder boards?

Simon.

[High Wood]

Now that I have unearthed another shoulder board from my collection I can clearly see the difference. The 'twist' is totally different from the infantry officers' pattern. I am clearly still learning.

[cbuehler]

The line infantry shoulder cords are easy to find and replace. Full dress scarlet uniforms did continue in limited use between the wars.
I am quite certain the tunic was originally a Bedfordshire tunic, the Beds and Herts buttons added with the change in title.
I have no idea about the Middlesex connection with the name, as the tunic is certainly not to that regiment. Did he transfer after the war?
A nice tunic and the collar badges should not be too difficult to find.

CB

[gb64]

Not my area of collecting by a long shot but the Middlesex Regiments facing colour was lemon/ yellow , same as this tunic???

Gerard

[cbuehler]

The facings are white. This tunic has nothing to do with the Die Hards.

CB

[gb64]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

The facings are white. This tunic has nothing to do with the Die Hards.

CB

That’s me told just an observation as on my iPhone they look more yellow than white , hopefully High Wood will get to the bottom of the tunic.

Gerard

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by cbuehler

The facings are white. This tunic has nothing to do with the Die Hards.

CB

Except the name of a Lt. Col. of the Middlesex Regiment in the inside pocket. I have checked and rechecked the Army Lists that I have and there appears to be one and only man of this name and initials serving as a Lt. Col. in 1914. Even if he had transferred to the Beds & Herts after the Great War, despite the lack of evidence that he did, he showed remarkable prescience in ordering a tunic with the correct facings in 1914.

It is theoretically possible that the labels were taken from another uniform to try and make it look more authentic, but why put the wrong epaulettes on if you are going for authenticity?

[Wmr-RHB]

Just a remark about the 4th and 6th Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge’s Own (Middlesex Regiment).

This is one and the same battalion:
65th, or 1st or Royal East Middlesex Regiment of Militia
1881: 4th Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge’s Own (Middlesex Regiment)
1900 (on the creation of two new regular battalions): 6th Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge’s Own (Middlesex Regiment)
1908: 6th (Reserve) Battalion, The Duke of Cambridge’s Own (Middlesex Regiment)

[manchesters]

It is theoretically possible that the labels were taken from another uniform to try and make it look more authentic, but why put the wrong eppaulettes on if you are going for authenticity?

Because they are mostly ignorant on the subject.

regards

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by manchesters

It is theoretically possible that the labels were taken from another uniform to try and make it look more authentic, but why put the wrong eppaulettes on if you are going for authenticity?

Because they are mostly ignorant on the subject.

regards

The man who sold it to me was a long term collector of Beds and Herts regiment uniforms who exhibits a large part of his collection in a museum in Luton. He had about 30 battledress blouses and great coats all badged up to the B&H and mostly post war. The red tunic stood out like a sore thumb and I immediately asked him about the B&H buttons and said that I was surprised to see them on a red tunic. He said that the original owner was probably a pre war regular Bedfordshire Regiment officer who was still serving in 1919 who wore the uniform on ceremonial occasions.

I asked if there was a tailor's label with the officer's name on it and he said that he had never found one. I didn't unbutton the tunic until I got back to the car, the label was not immediately visible but I found it sewn to the inside pocket. At no stage did the seller make a selling point of the label. I did find it strange that a tailor's label was safety pinned to the inside of the uniform, but assumed that it had come away and had been pinned back on to keep it with the uniform.

I had spotted that the rank bullion was missing from the epaulettes but had not noticed that they were of the wrong pattern. I was aware that there was probably something not quite right, but when I asked him how much he wanted for it, he asked a daft price, daft in my favour, so I bought it and have no regrets. I hope to restore it to its original condition.

My best guess is that it was mocked up from a stripped uniform with what ever was to hand in order to display it in the museum.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by High Wood

Yesterdays purchase from a man selling off a large chunk of his Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment collection.

My first thoughts were that is was wrong as officers' Red tunics were phased out at the begining of the Great War and that the Bedford and Hertfordshire regiments were not amalgamated until 1919. So why were there B&H buttons on a red tunic? Clearly collar badges have been removed and the eppaulettes have had their rank badges taken away but is was for sale at a remarkably good price so I bought it.

On closer inspection I found a tailor's label in an inside pocket which revealed the original owner's name. Lt.-Col. G. E. Barker and the date 6th May 1914. A quick search of the 1914 Army List revealed only one Lt.-Col. G. E. Barker, and he was serving with the 6th battalion Middlesex Regiment.

Further research showed that Gerald Edgar Barker was born in 1867, educated at Eton College and was first commissioned in to the 4th Battalion Middlesex Regiment on the 25th April 1885, promoted Captain 13th April 1889, Honorary Major, (6th Btn. Middlesex Regt.), 14th November 1900. He served in the South African War and was mentioned in Despatches (L.G. 29th July 1902). He appears to have been home service only during the Great War and on 14th November 1918 and now, Lt.-Col. he relinquished his commission on completion of the tenure of his command, and was granted permission to retain his rank and wear the prescribed uniform. He died on the 3rd July 1922 aged 54.

Now what is confusing me is that the Army List states that the Middlesex Regiment wore Lemon Yellow facings and that the Bedfordshire Regiment wore White facings, so why does a 1914 dated tunic of a senior officer in the Middlesex Regiment have the wrong colour facings?

Secondly, is there any legitimate reason why a pre Great War tunic should have been configured as a Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment tunic?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Sorry if I'm being pedantic here but the Bedfordshire Regiment and the Hertfordshire Regiment were not amalgamated in 1919. The Bedfordshire Regiment was re-named as the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment in 1919 in recognition of all the Hertfordshire men who had served in it in WW1. The Hertfordshire Regiment (TA) retained it's seperate existence until 1961.

[norfolk regt man]

Here’s my view. If you want a military angle, go with this picture.

[norfolk regt man]

Or, if you prefer, donated to a theatre, buttons and bits added there.