1st W.W. Silks in Frame (Dix Noonan Auction)

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by High Wood

I cannot find a Pte. C. H. Smith serving in the 13th K.R.R.C.

The strange thing is the name on the card insert has the rank of Pte, yet the post card shows a C.S.M. Was the sender of the card a Pte, regiment unknown, but of the 37th Division, and the man in the photograph his brother, brother in law or best mate, whose surname was possibly something other than Smith?

I don’t know, but the fact that the man in the photo wears a standard badge suggests he can only be holding acting rank.

[Toby Purcell]

Having consulted with a long standing observer and study of KRRC I can report back his abbreviated analysis and conclusion:

“With three Overseas chevrons up, your chap is later than July 1915 , so he's a WO II. If before AO 309 1918, he could be RQMS, but I'm confident he's a CSM.”

Dress for CSM = “[as a] WO II, Crown on lower sleeve, Maltese Cross cap badge, no Sam Browne.”

Conclusion: in essence, as per long tradition the key factor continued to be whether the appointee was employed in a battalion headquarters staff role. Despite both being WOII the [R]QMS was in such a role whereas the CSM in a specifically company level role was not. Ergo: QMS = rope boss badge. CSM = standard regimental badge.

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

Having consulted with a long standing observer and study of KRRC I can report back his abbreviated analysis and conclusion:

“With three Overseas chevrons up, your chap is later than July 1915 , so he's a WO II. If before AO 309 1918, he could be RQMS, but I'm confident he's a CSM.”

Dress for CSM = “[as a] WO II, Crown on lower sleeve, Maltese Cross cap badge, no Sam Browne.”

Conclusion: in essence as per long tradition the key factor continued to be whether the appointee was employed in a battalion headquarters staff role. Despite both being WOII the [R]QMS was in such a role whereas the CSM in a specifically company level role was not. Ergo: QMS = rope boss badge. CSM = standard regimental badge.

That is all well and good, but we still have the problem of the sender of the post cards being a Pte. C. H. Smith. 37th I.B.D. and, if he is a member of the K.R.R.C. he must be from the 13th battalion. I cannot find any evidence of a Pte C. H. Smith, K.R.R.C. who reached the rank of CSM.

I therefore think that we are missing a vital piece of information. The C.S.M. may well be the husband of the recipient of the majority of the post cards. In fact, all most certainly is the husband, given that his photograph is in the frame. However, one or more of the post cards could have been sent by a brother or neighbour of the recipient or the sender, and all the cards received being framed together.

The only other possibility is that he was promoted to C.S.M. after hostilities ended, perhaps in the Army of Occupation in Germany.

We would really need to look at the back of all the cards and in all of the lace pockets to see if we have missed anything that might identify either the recipient or the sender. As Billy has now reframed the post cards, I suspect that we will not get a chance to see the backs of the cards.

I was only able to find one Charles Smith in the 13th Btn with a second initial, which turned out to be a W.

[Toby Purcell]

Another expert contributor has pointed out that the medals on the sergeant major’s chest, based on their issue date, indicate that “the photo is from no earlier than September 1919.”

That chimes with your comment that the photo might possibly have been taken after the Armistice.

[Fatherofthree]

There is always the possibility, however remote, that the sender is Smith and he sent the picture of the Sergeant enclosed in a separate letter stating something along the lines of "and this is a picture of my Sergeant who is a thoroughly nice bloke." or enclosed is Sergeant, (name) a friend/brother etc of our next door neighbour etc. etc. etc..

Regards.

Brian

[Sonofacqms]

With a name like Smith I am sure there were many mistakes made as to who the identity was, hence the army giving them all numbers, could it be that C.H. Smith could have been C.W. Smith?

Rob

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

With a name like Smith I am sure there were many mistakes made as to who the identity was, hence the army giving them all numbers, could it be that C.H. Smith could have been C.W. Smith?

Rob

It is certainly possible but the person who wrote his name and unit on the card knew who he (himself) was. We are not familiar with his florid hand writing as we do not have a big enough sample of it. The H could be a W.

The other possibility is that he did not enlist under his full name, i.e. he enlisted as Charles Smith rather than Charles Henry Smith. In the course of my research I often come across soldiers who have more than one initial despite only using one on enlistment. I myself have three initials but only ever use my first name and surname for everyday things, but have all three initials on my debit card and my full name only on my passport.

There are 45 medal index cards for Charles Smiths in the K.R.R.C. of which 17 are plain Charles without other initials. I haven't been through their Medal Rolls to determine their various battalions.

I haven't yet looked for any Cliffords, Caspers, Clarences or Christophers either.