Lovat green

[milhistry]

I'm curious to know the origin of the Royal Marines' Lovat green service dress. When, why, and how did it come about?

[gb64]

Just spoke to my brother in law, ex RM and as far as he remembers it was introduced in 1964 to commemorate the 300 years of the Corps, hope that helps a little I'm sure RM collectors will help more

Gerard

[Carnforth]

Originally Posted by milhistry

I'm curious to know the origin of the Royal Marines' Lovat green service dress. When, why, and how did it come about?

As mentioned, 1964, certainly no later.

My understanding is that it was introduced as a result of the army making Battle-dress obsolete and the Royal Marines also having to find a replacement for BDs chose Lovats in the same way that the army moved to No2 Dress.

[Paddy]

Announced in AFO 1861 dated 04 Oct 1963 that the new Lovat uniform would be introduced from 1st April 1964 with a transition period of 2 years. I have not heard before that it was to do with the 300th birthday but have heard read documents that indicate it was to do with the army introducing a new style of uniform around the same time to replace service dress.

http://www.rmhistorical.com/images/A...04-10-1963.pdf

Paddy

[Sunray9]

Tercentenary celebrations Deal 1964 ... I believe this was the first time the new Lovat uniforms were seen 'en masse' in public

[grey_green_acorn]

Is it the case that the first issues in 1964 were of a BD type of material and known as "Hairy Lovats" when later issues were of a finer quality cloth?

Tim

[Sunray9]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Is it the case that the first issues in 1964 were of a BD type of material and known as "Hairy Lovats" when later issues were of a finer quality cloth?

Tim

Tim, if memory serves it was the other way round ! Hairy Lovats ... like wearing an ill-fitting tailored blanket.

Ritchie.

[Guzzman]

Surely there must be a link to Lord Lovat and his time as a distinguished commando leader during World War II? I know that he was an Army commando rather than a Royal Marine but Lovat green does feature in the Lovat tartan. Just an idea.

Pete

[Sunray9]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Surely there must be a link to Lord Lovat and his time as a distinguished commando leader during World War II? I know that he was an Army commando rather than a Royal Marine but Lovat green does feature in the Lovat tartan. Just an idea.

Pete

Probably true Pete!

[grey_green_acorn]

www.rm-badges.com seems to answer my question on "Hairy Lovats". From RMRO documents it seems that initially two suits were issued, one (the better) in Lovat wool worsted and the other in Lovat serge (the 'hairy' one) for barrack dress.

http://www.rm-badges.com/images/RMRO...013-8-1962.pdf

Later, from 1974, the "hairy" serge suit was replaced by a Jersey Heavy Wool with a second pair of wool worsted trousers.

http://www.rm-badges.com/images/DCI(...022-3-1974.pdf

Can't see any reference as to why Lovat was chosen?

http://www.rm-badges.com/images/AUCC...205-1-1962.pdf

Tim

[milhistry]

I have wondered whether the Lovat green colour had anything to do with South Africa. Between the World Wars, South Africa introduced a greyish green uniform similar in colour to the RM Lovat green. By the late 1930s it was all but replaced again by drab or khaki depending on the weather but it was retained as the Review Order Dress for a while and a handful of pre-War members continued to wear it into WWII though only at home. The reason I wondered about this is the fondness of the Marines for associations with the South African Commando traditions e.g. naming their units Commandoes rather than Battalions and the "Sarie Marais" march as well.

[REMEVMBEA1]

Of course it could be something as simple as the RMs wanting to maintain their individuality and Lovat seems a reasonable colour for a corps that was originally light infantry.

[1664]

Having wondered for ages if Lovats had anything to do with Lord Lovat this thread prompted me to take a look at the National Archives catalogue and go and take a look at the file that deals with the introduction of Lovats into the Royal Marines.

The term 'Lovats; was first used in the file in Jan 1962. The argument was being made that the Corps needed a second type of uniform. The file goes on and consistently refers to Lovat as the shade of cloth. No reference to WW2 or Lord Lovat of commando fame is ever made.

Yours
John