British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Photographs of British Servicemen and Women Wearing Insignia

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-05-21, 04:28 PM
Hawthorn's Avatar
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Surrey England
Posts: 729
Default Coldstream Guards Officer on Ebay

No connection to the seller but thought this a worthy Ebay listing to share as I have never seen what appears to be Coldstream Collar Stars of this type worn on this type of Officers jacket at this time. The buttons also appear to be Coldstream pattern and the Photographers address would obviously fit in nicely.

Not sure how to just save the image instead of the listing for future reference to avoid it disappearing.

Interested to see if anyone has seen this combination before.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224418144...53.m1438.l2649

Regards Simon.
__________________
Second To None
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-05-21, 04:33 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,281
Default

Nice that Simon. I save images like this sometimes.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-05-21, 04:43 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,220
Default

Are these not simply collars and buttons that were worn upon Home Service Full Dress at the point in time the image was taken?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
No connection to the seller but thought this a worthy Ebay listing to share as I have never seen what appears to be Coldstream Collar Stars of this type worn on this type of Officers jacket at this time. The buttons also appear to be Coldstream pattern and the Photographers address would obviously fit in nicely.

Not sure how to just save the image instead of the listing for future reference to avoid it disappearing.

Interested to see if anyone has seen this combination before.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224418144...53.m1438.l2649

Regards Simon.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-05-21, 05:11 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,281
Default

Yes Frank you're probably right. But photo's/evidence that the Guards wore collar badges with the exception of Home Service Clothing are rare IMHO.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-05-21, 05:42 PM
Hawthorn's Avatar
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Surrey England
Posts: 729
Default

Andy,

Agree with you, never seen the use of collar badges like this before, can't imagine the Adjudant would have been too happy. A classic example of photographic evidence showing the difference between what you would expect to see and what was, infact worn.

Simon.
__________________
Second To None
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-05-21, 06:09 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,220
Default

I think the questions I would ask would be who is this particular gentleman and when was the portrait taken?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-05-21, 06:43 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,281
Default

There are photographs of the Grenadier Guards wearing the small shoulder title grenade, as a collar badge. In the Sudan late 1800's.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-05-21, 06:53 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 2,670
Default

I agree and have seen other photos of the composite, camel mounted unit of Foot Guards and Household Cavalry wearing collar badges and regimental buttons as shown during the early Sudan campaign.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-05-21, 12:39 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,140
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
Andy,

Agree with you, never seen the use of collar badges like this before, can't imagine the Adjudant would have been too happy. A classic example of photographic evidence showing the difference between what you would expect to see and what was, infact worn.

Simon.
There are those who would argue that photo evidence is empirical with regard to what was approved to be worn, but I still tend towards a "photo shop opportunity" when it comes to these type of photos. I can't imagine bullion wire collar badges would be worn with KD as they would be ruined with a couple of washings. Note the civilian small brass four hole buttons as often seen on hunt coat lining pockets, trouser fly etc.

CB
__________________
Bdr. Parker Windle MM, A Btry. 210th (E. Lancs.) RFA WW1 , fr. Burnley
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-05-21, 07:42 AM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,416
Default

So perhaps a newly commissioned officer, warned for service in South Africa, visits his tailor and then a photographer. Without those collar badges, which indeed are unsuitable for KD, his regiment would not be apparent.

Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-05-21, 09:48 AM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 2,670
Default

Badges were retro fitted to be removable from KD to facilitate regular laundering. Hooks and eyes were the most common method but I’ve also seen blades and a circular plate fitted with loops stitched to the back of bullion badges. Survivals are rare as bullion badges tended to be damaged over time and replaced with new. I don’t think that it would enter the mind of a Foot Guards officer to play dress up in anything that wasn’t regulation for the purposes of a photo.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-05-21, 10:17 AM
Hawthorn's Avatar
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Surrey England
Posts: 729
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Purcell View Post
Badges were retro fitted to be removable from KD to facilitate regular laundering. Hooks and eyes were the most common method but Iíve also seen blades and a circular plate fitted with loops stitched to the back of bullion badges. Survivals are rare as bullion badges tended to be damaged over time and replaced with new. I donít think that it would enter the mind of a Foot Guards officer to play dress up in anything that wasnít regulation for the purposes of a photo.
Indeed Toby, my original reason for posting the attachment was the rarity of the image showing these collars in wear.

Regards, Simon.
__________________
Second To None
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-05-21, 04:20 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
Indeed Toby, my original reason for posting the attachment was the rarity of the image showing these collars in wear.

Regards, Simon.
Yes Simon, I agree that photos of Guards officers in that dress are quite rare. In part I think that’s because the Guards frequently formed composite units so that not all officers were deployed. I have definitely seen a few others in the same dress though. The enclosed photo of some reenactors who have carefully researched their uniform shows the 1884-85 Sudan dress with the famous grey Norfolk style field jacket fitted with the same collar badge. The black and white photo and KD jackets in colour show 3rd Grenadiers in the Sudan for the final campaign 1898 and they can be seen wearing the gilt metal grenade collar badges favoured by that regiment.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 04-05-21 at 05:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-05-21, 04:43 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,281
Default

I like that Toby, good photo.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-05-21, 07:29 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,220
Default

Over a hundred and forty quid, someone clearly wanted it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
No connection to the seller but thought this a worthy Ebay listing to share as I have never seen what appears to be Coldstream Collar Stars of this type worn on this type of Officers jacket at this time. The buttons also appear to be Coldstream pattern and the Photographers address would obviously fit in nicely.

Not sure how to just save the image instead of the listing for future reference to avoid it disappearing.

Interested to see if anyone has seen this combination before.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224418144...53.m1438.l2649

Regards Simon.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:25 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.