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Old 13-08-10, 11:23 PM
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TomPC TomPC is offline
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Question Order of Precedence 1914-1918 First Exciting Instalment

Hello All

This is my first thread so apologies if I make any schoolboy errors.

My main collection is WWI regulars - which over the years I have defined more precisely as:

"The (Principal) O.R. Cap Badges of the Regular Regiments & Corps of the British Army in existence (at any point) 1914-1918."

*OR = Other Ranks (privates, troopers etc.)

So we're definitely not talking yeomanry, militia, pals, VBs, OTCs, CCFs, TA...

I am quite close to finishing my collection, and want to nail down the order of precedence I will be using when I frame it.

I have read the other posts on Precedence, all of which point to Gaylor et al for guidance... but I do not feel all the questions are answered in that book - or indeed in any other book or website I have ever read.

However I am leaning on Gaylor, Army Lists, regiments.org's 1918 order of precedence and a similar collection framed at the In and Out Club - all of whom conflict!

I cannot stress strongly enough the extent to which I would be delighted to have you all rip my reasoning and logic apart. So please would you let me have your comments on the following order? (Enjoy ripping!)

This is only PART I so the discussion does not become too unweildy.


PROPOSED ORDER OF PRECEDENCE - 1914-1918 (The duration of WW1)

1. Royal Navy
The badge I am using is KK1159 which is a Petty Officer's badge - but I cannot think of a good RN alternative for Able Seaman - so it's representative of the Navy.

2. Royal Marines
I presume that the RMA (as arty) takes precedence over RMLI (as inf) but have never found a single written word on the topic... or maybe it's an entirely moot point! I also appreciate that these could 'parade' as Army after the Royal Berks regiment, but have opted to parade them as Navy.

3. RHA
Purely to be controversial, I am thinking of putting them ahead of the HH Cav since they take precedence over the entire army when they parade with their guns.

The badge I am planning to use is KK1931 which may in itself be controversial. KK describe it as "worn in puggaree abroad; issued for Silver Jubilee parades". I don't own it yet, so if you own one I have 50p with your name on it.

I have been told that the RHA is not a regiment in its own right and is merely a sub-regiment of the R Reg of Arty and thusly does not deserve to feature independently anyway!

4. Cavalry
1LG 2LG RHG, 1-7 Dragoon Guards, 1-4 [not 5] then 6-21 Dragoons, Hussars, Lancers THEN 5th Lancers (who lost their precedence after alleged mutiny)... and finally Remount Service.

(a) I am likely to feature BOTH 1KDG badges (Austrian Eagle and... the boring one) and at least two of the four possible versions of the 14th (The King's) Hussars (1. Prussian Eagle 2. Large/Solid 3. Large/Voided 4. Small/Voided).

(b) I am not sure about the Remounts, but have seen them take precedence at the end of the cavalry before. I was previously planning to include them as a Dept/Corps after the Infantry.

(c) I am not sure what to do about the Tank Corps. My inital inclination was to put it after the Cav, but I have been advised that they were not viewed as horsey-cavalry before the RAC was formed.

(d) Another issue here is the treatment of the Household Battalion in particular and War-Raised units in general. The HB was formed from LG reservists and fought as infantry - but was not 'spun out' of the LifeGuards per se. It was its own regiment.

My feeling is that it would either take precedence (1) after the RHG, (2) Between Welsh Gds and the GMGR or (3) Not at all since it did not go on to become a regular regiment after the war.

5. Combat Support Arms
RA RE RFC
The RFC spun out of the RE and took precedence directly after it. The RSigs weren't invented yet!

The RAF will also feature (as the very last badge in the collection) since it was formed before the war ended (just).

6. Guards
GG CG SG IG WG

(So far so good - unless you're a Coldstreamer - lol)

Then... possibly HB who fought as infantry and were raised from Life Guards reservists (as mentioned above)...

Lastly, GMGR.

I don't think the Officer Training Battalion counts as a Regiment and almost certainly would not have had an OR badge.

7. Infantry of the Line
Nothing strange here I hope.... just everything from R Scots to Rifle Brigade with an extra Gloucesters Back Badge thrown in for good measure.

I'll stop at this point before the next layers of complexity begin.

Thanks for reading!

Tom

Last edited by TomPC; 14-08-10 at 12:42 AM.
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  #2  
Old 14-08-10, 03:15 AM
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whizzbang whizzbang is offline
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Hi Tom, sorry I can't help you but I read your post with interest and I wish you all the best with your efforts! Cheers, Ian.
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Old 14-08-10, 08:00 AM
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KLR KLR is offline
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Welcome Tom,
Being taken to see the In and Out collection over 40 years ago was one of the things that stimulated my schoolboy collection. Although I started collecting "everything" I settled down for a 1914 Gds and Infy line up - I still have that collection and I've added for anyone's benefit the War Office badge pattern numbers to the list - it's in My Albums. Yes, Army Lists are the obvious source, I always prefer to use official (WO etc) sources rather than collectors books.
Good luck - if you see Dave2's album, he's al;so nearly finished a 1914 Infy collection too !
Julian
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Old 14-08-10, 09:48 AM
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Hi Tom,

Like Julian's collection I included the Footguards and I've also put a Royal Marines Light Infantry badge in.

I now need one more and that is the Royal Irish Regiment, one or two in the pipe line, I will also want to change a couple that I already have, for better versions but that's not urgent.

I will not be framing mine because I have a large set of drawers but they will go on a backing of some kind and still be accessible.

Good luck with yours.

Dave.

Last edited by davec2; 14-08-10 at 03:54 PM.
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