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  #16  
Old 30-12-14, 10:36 PM
redman redman is offline
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Hi Brian,
Just curious why you attribute metal shoulder titles to SA brigades rather than battalions.?
There are two pages of pictures of ww1 sa metal shoulder titles in cox, various designs 1 to 12 surely these represent battalions as there were only 3 brigades.
All the best
Dan
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  #17  
Old 31-12-14, 05:52 AM
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Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redman View Post
Hi Brian,
Just curious why you attribute metal shoulder titles to SA brigades rather than battalions.?
There are two pages of pictures of ww1 sa metal shoulder titles in cox, various designs 1 to 12 surely these represent battalions as there were only 3 brigades.
All the best
Dan
Dan

Sorry, I think I may have made a mistake!

I'm sure you know but besides heavy artillery, medical, signals and a few smaller outfits, we only sent one Infantry Brigade to France, this was named the 1st SA Inf Brigade. This Brigade initially consisted of four Regiments numbered 1 to 4. It is only later that when losses took there toll that the Composite Battalion was formed. As far as I have been able to work out and have asked the question regards these S/T, is that they are all attributable to the 1st Inf Brigade. I stand to be corrected hence this thread, but do suspect the ones with numbers inserted in them or above them, could represent the various four Regiments who made up the 1st Inf Brigade.These private purchases may or may not have been official but do appear to have been worn.

Hopefully William will be able to fill in more gaps regards the naming and badges from his collection?

The shoulder titles used in German East Africa are very different to those worn on the Western Front.

You refer to Cox, I have not seen this publication, is it possible to show some images from this source? The more info we can add the better.

Regards
Brian

Last edited by Brian Conyngham; 31-12-14 at 06:04 AM.
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  #18  
Old 31-12-14, 08:23 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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The SAI titles with numerals worn in East Africa were worn by individual battalions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redman View Post
Hi Brian,
Just curious why you attribute metal shoulder titles to SA brigades rather than battalions.?
There are two pages of pictures of ww1 sa metal shoulder titles in cox, various designs 1 to 12 surely these represent battalions as there were only 3 brigades.
All the best
Dan
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  #19  
Old 31-12-14, 09:48 AM
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Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
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Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
The SAI titles with numerals worn in East Africa were worn by individual battalions.
Frank

100% and numbered 5 SAI to 12 SAI, if I am not mistaken.

Brian
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  #20  
Old 01-01-15, 06:31 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Hello Brian,
I've often wondered why there are so few left these days, the real enemy in East Africa was disease and I suppose an awful lot of shirts and tunic's went onto the fire as and when, so perhaps I should not be at all surprised really, they have not survived in any significant numbers.
Happy new year Brian, regards Frank
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  #21  
Old 01-01-15, 08:22 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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Hi Brian,

I have just had a look at the pages referred to in Cox's book.

You are correct in referring to the Brigade shoulder titles as used by the 1st South African Infantry Brigade in France. In most cases the "general" type of shoulder title was worn and the battalions or regiments were distinguished by wearing brass numerals above the title to indicate which unit the individual belonged to. There are exceptions within the 2nd and third Regiments and I have one example of the 4th Regiment having a numeral within or on the title.

The SA Heavy Artillery also had distinguishing numerals in some cases and variations do exist.

In German South West Africa, units were increased for the campaign and in some cases additional battalions were formed. A good example is the Kimberley Regiment. These "second" battalions wore distinguishing numerals on the shoulder titles which were often worn as headdress badges.

East Africa is as you have described it.

I will start taking photographs today so that I can add to this very interesting thread.

Regards,

Will
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  #22  
Old 01-01-15, 10:34 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6888.jpg

This shoulder title is the most commonly found and was worn by all units within the 1st South African Infantry Brigade. This battlefield relic was given to me by the owner of the Tommy Café during a visit to France in 2003.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-15, 10:46 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6880.jpg

IMG_6881.jpg

IMG_6882.jpg

IMG_6883.jpg

IMG_6885.jpg

IMG_6886.jpg

Variations from my collection. The first shoulder title has a blue and orange cloth backing which were the colours used by the Natal and Orange Free State Regiment (2nd South African Infantry Regiment)?
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  #24  
Old 01-01-15, 10:57 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6892.jpg

IMG_6887.jpg

IMG_6889.jpg

IMG_6890.jpg

IMG_6891.jpg

The scarcer Brigade shoulder title with some variations.
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  #25  
Old 01-01-15, 11:04 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6893.jpg

IMG_6894.jpg

IMG_6895.jpg

2nd South African Infantry shoulder title variations.
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  #26  
Old 01-01-15, 11:11 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6896.jpg

IMG_6897.jpg

Variations of the 3 South African Infantry title as previously posted by Brian.

Both made by Gaunt.
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  #27  
Old 01-01-15, 11:16 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6898.jpg

IMG_6899.jpg

The 4th South African or S.A. Scottish Regiment.
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  #28  
Old 01-01-15, 11:18 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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sa scott.jpg

This photograph shows how the title was worn with the numeral.
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  #29  
Old 01-01-15, 11:44 AM
sabrigade sabrigade is offline
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IMG_6900.jpg

IMG_6901.jpg

IMG_6902.jpg

IMG_6903.jpg

IMG_6904.jpg

IMG_6905.jpg

IMG_6906.jpg

IMG_6907.jpg

IMG_6908.jpg

IMG_6909.jpg

IMG_6910.jpg

IMG_6911.jpg

IMG_6912.jpg

IMG_6913.jpg

WW1 "SOUTH AFRICA' Shoulder Title variations.
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  #30  
Old 01-01-15, 04:40 PM
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Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
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Will

Your collection of these beauties has grown considerably since I was last at your place, thanks for these additions. Amazing really how they have faded from the shops.

Brian
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