6th South African Armoured Division slip ons

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
A brave man perhaps, the Ritter Kreuz in April 1943 for his service in Russia as a battalion commander, but, still a wretched kuntz, moreover, banged up in the nick in Italy until they saw fit to turn him loose in 1985!
The 16th SS Division were far too busy in Italy murdering unarmed people to ever take on the Red Devils in Holland!
Regards Frank

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

nevertheless, a Kampfgruppe of this unit was at Arnhem, maybe attached to the SS Panzer Division that was there.

regards, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
A brave man perhaps, the Ritter Kreuz in April 1943 for his service in Russia as a battalion commander, but, still a wretched kuntz, moreover, banged up in the nick in Italy until they saw fit to turn him loose in 1985!
The 16th SS Division were far too busy in Italy murdering unarmed people to ever take on the Red Devils in Holland!
Regards Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
Are you seriously suggesting that a battle group from this division was actually fighting in Holland in September 1944, could tell me the name of the unit please and it's commander?
Some sources give the 16th Training and Reserve Battalion as being present and some indentify the same, but, as the Training and Reserve Battalion, 16th SS Division, I would have thought that they would have been far too busy in Italy.

Regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Frank,

nevertheless, a Kampfgruppe of this unit was at Arnhem, maybe attached to the SS Panzer Division that was there.

regards, Iain

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

SS-Sturmbannführer Sepp Kraft was the name of the Kommandant; Kampfgruppe Kraft was the 16th Training and Replacement Battalion at Arnhem and was the training and replacement battalion of the 16th SS Panzergrenadier Division Reichsführer.
This unit played a crucial role in the opening phases of the battle as Kraft acted quickly to establish a blocking screen west of Oosterbeek. They held up the Airborne advance for a considerable time.
Apparently, Sepp Kraft kept a war diary which covered Arnhem and it's in the National Archives; ref WO 205/1124.
Interestingly, there were also 2 Fallschirm training regiments at Arnhem.

regards, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
Are you seriously suggesting that a battle group from this division was actually fighting in Holland in September 1944, could tell me the name of the unit please and it's commander?
Some sources give the 16th Training and Reserve Battalion as being present and some indentify the same, but, as the Training and Reserve Battalion, 16th SS Division, I would have thought that they would have been far too busy in Italy.

Regards Frank

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
Major Josef Krafft's armoured recce regiment was attached to the 9th SS Division and was was originally in Holland to provide replacements for the 12th SS Division because of the fighting in France.
As far as I am aware people who suggest it was part of the 16th SS Division are merely confused by it's original name.
I've met a few over the years in Holland, because of my grandfather, but, the only one I actually knew was Heinz Harmel, back then, in 1944, Harmel was the young CO of their 10th SS Div.
I must admit, I actually liked him as a gentleman, a very thoughtful and sincere man, he sent flowers to my grandfather's funeral, we kept in touch and enchanged cards for many years too.
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Frank,

SS-Sturmbannführer Sepp Kraft was the name of the Kommandant; Kampfgruppe Kraft was the 16th Training and Replacement Battalion at Arnhem and was the training and replacement battalion of the 16th SS Panzergrenadier Division Reichsführer.
This unit played a crucial role in the opening phases of the battle as Kraft acted quickly to establish a blocking screen west of Oosterbeek. They held up the Airborne advance for a considerable time.
Apparently, Sepp Kraft kept a war diary which covered Arnhem and it's in the National Archives; ref WO 205/1124.
Interestingly, there were also 2 Fallschirm training regiments at Arnhem.

regards, Iain

[iaindh]

Hi Frank,

there is a lot of differing information out there or maybe not differing, maybe it just need putting together properly.
I have also come across a reference to the 16th Panzer Grenadier Training and Replacement Battalion providing replacements for the 12th SS Panzer Div Hitlerjugend after their defence of the Falaise pocket, allowing the 9th & 10th SS Panzer Divisions to escape, which is what the 9th & 10th were doing at Arnhem, refurbishing.
I thought Debes was CO of the 10th SS Panzer Division?
I've known a few Germans myself and they are decent people. My previous house I bought from an old man who had been in the Hitler Youth and fought at Monte Cassino. He was smuggled out of East Germany by a British officer.

kind regards, Iain

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Iain,
Major Josef Krafft's armoured recce regiment was attached to the 9th SS Division and was was originally in Holland to provide replacements for the 12th SS Division because of the fighting in France.
As far as I am aware people who suggest it was part of the 16th SS Division are merely confused by it's original name.
I've met a few over the years in Holland, because of my grandfather, but, the only one I actually knew was Heinz Harmel, back then, in 1944, Harmel was the young CO of their 10th SS Div.
I must admit, I actually liked him as a gentleman, a very thoughtful and sincere man, he sent flowers to my grandfather's funeral, we kept in touch and enchanged cards for many years too.
Kind regards Frank

[loupie1961]

I do hope you won't mind if I get back to the original topic, 6th SAAD slip on epaulettes So as to post a single SAA "browned" title on a KD epaulette slip on and a "Rhodesia" title on another KD slip on... I guess worn by either a trooper of the A Squadron, Pretoria Regiment, B Squadron Prince Alfred's Guards or C Squadron, Special Service Battalion, or a gunner of the 1/22nd Battery or a gunner of the 1/11th Anti-Tank Rgt, SAA...

[loupie1961]

And three different South African Signal Corps epaulette slip ons: the first one is bilingual, the second one is a monolingual pair, and please notice that the title on the second slip on has broken and been repaired by adding a spare S.A. with no bars ...

[Brian Conyngham]

Loupie

A nice pair of "straight" SACS titles, not often seen.

Brian

[loupie1961]

Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham

Loupie

A nice pair of "straight" SACS titles, not often seen.

Brian

Brian, I am afraid is just ONE title and a half.... So I guess that the bilingual titles were commoner?

[iaindh]

Hi Loupie,

I was actually thinking we were a long way off topic but it's all interesting stuff.

You have a nice collection of 6th SAAD slips on, you can be pleased.

Iain

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Iain,
Well, I really would'nt know, my information came from actually talking to former members of their 9th and 10th Divisions during visits to Holland in the 1980's and 1990's, certainly, Josef Krafft was not sending his lads to join Army Group South and as far as I am aware, niether he, or his battalion ever had anything to do with that Group and in particular, their 16th SS Division.
Members of his unit told me that they had expected to stay in North West Europe because of the fighting that had taken place in France, moreover, not one of them that I remember talking to had expected to survive either.
Harmel commanded their 10th Division from April 1944, throughout France, Holland, Alsace and then in Germany.
I don't care for jerry at all, I never have, but, Harmel was really the only one I have ever met that I can honestly say that I liked and he was always held in high regard by many members of the 1st Airborne Division after the war.
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by iaindh

Hi Frank,

there is a lot of differing information out there or maybe not differing, maybe it just need putting together properly.
I have also come across a reference to the 16th Panzer Grenadier Training and Replacement Battalion providing replacements for the 12th SS Panzer Div Hitlerjugend after their defence of the Falaise pocket, allowing the 9th & 10th SS Panzer Divisions to escape, which is what the 9th & 10th were doing at Arnhem, refurbishing.
I thought Debes was CO of the 10th SS Panzer Division?
I've known a few Germans myself and they are decent people. My previous house I bought from an old man who had been in the Hitler Youth and fought at Monte Cassino. He was smuggled out of East Germany by a British officer.

kind regards, Iain

[Frank Kelley]

Agreed, but, I felt Iain's post needed to be looked at, anyway, here is an old friend and the very handsome period campaign made NMR title, to add to your thread!

Originally Posted by loupie1961

I do hope you won't mind if I get back to the original topic, 6th SAAD slip on epaulettes So as to post a single SAA "browned" title on a KD epaulette slip on and a "Rhodesia" title on another KD slip on... I guess worn by either a trooper of the A Squadron, Pretoria Regiment, B Squadron Prince Alfred's Guards or C Squadron, Special Service Battalion, or a gunner of the 1/22nd Battery or a gunner of the 1/11th Anti-Tank Rgt, SAA...

[Brian Conyngham]

Frank

I have one of these and thought mine was a one off! Nice to see another suspect they were made in the workshops, very clever the way they used to wrap back the metal to create lugs.

Brian

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Brian,
These alloy titles were made for this campaign and whilst they turn up from time to time, they certainly do not grow on trees!
Regards Frank