51st Soo Rifles

[Bill A]

This badge frequently shows up on ebay and dealer's lists. Unfortunately, most of them are reproductions. The story goes that the dies for this cap badge have made it into unscrupulos hands and reproduction badges are being made in vast quantities. There is another string just posted where a dealer has an example for sale with a slider. The original, non repro badges were never made with sliders. The proper fasteners are lugs or tangs. Another characteristic is the finish. Some repro badges are being sold in the natural brass finish. NO GOOD. The Soo Rifles were a rifles regiment and all or's badges should be a darkened finish eg bronze or in black. The officers' badges were finished in silver. Beware, some vendors offer blackened badges that are not authentic. Check the paint job carefully. As far as I know, all the 51st Soo Rifles badges were Gaunt made. Here are images of the or's and officer's badges. Note the north south orientation of the fasteners on both badges.

[Voltigeur]

Hey Bill, Thanks for posting these pics. Great badges and really informative.
Cheers
Jo

[MARC0569]

Thank you Bill. Just looking at one and your superb guidance has shown me its not genuine. Quality badges of yours. How did you come by them please? Kind regards, Marc

[Bill A]

The lugged pattern was purchased and the officer's badge was a trade made over 25 years ago.

[DavidS]

Originally Posted by Bill A

The story goes that the dies for this cap badge have made it into unscrupulos hands and reproduction badges are being made in vast quantities.

Re this story, I've been spending some time trying to run this to ground. I am pretty much convinced it is bunk.

The Soo repros do seem to start appearing in the late 60s/early 70s, but as far as I can tell they are not struck from the original dies, just another copy artist at work. There are too many immediate and obvious differences between an original and the repros for this story to have any credence.

I picked up what I was assured by Brooker is one of the original (if that word can actually apply) 'original die restrikes' for comparison. Not that dating restrikes is a sure thing, but I'll take it at face value.

The photo attached has an original (l) and the early 'original die' restrike (r). Note the huge differences: everything from the shape of the nose and lips, to the flatter headdress band, to the feather shapes and details, to the lettering shapes and position, to the throat ornament detail and shoulder band. The damned things aren't even the same size, for gosh sakes.

That 'original die' sure must have taken a s**t-kicking in storage, because it seems to have gone through more changes than my aging skin over the same number of years.

My personal feeling is that collectors just jumped on the 'original dies/unscrupulous hands' theory en masse without anyone actually taking the time to look at the supposed 'original die restrike' badge.

[barriefield-brian]

This is my badge. Dang they look good, are they artificially aged? Cheers Brian

[Bill A]

Hi Brian, I wouldn't want that badge as an example in my collection. They are good because they are struck from the original die. One can easily "age" a badge to make them look authentic.
(See below, somehow I missed David's post above. My apologies. On examination is obvious that another die was used for the slider style badge. The 51st Soo Rifles badge was not approved until just before the First WW and the unit was redesignated the Sault Ste Marie Regt in 1923. The new name necessitated a new badge.)

[barriefield-brian]

Thanks Bill. Had this one for a while, when I got it I assumed it was pre-war as some regiments made some with sliders. I have my grandfathers PWOR badge with slider I am assuming was from the 1930's. Anyone know which regiments did this? Cheers Brian

[DavidS]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi Brian, I wouldn't want that badge as an example in my collection. They are good because they are struck from the original die. One can easily "age" a badge to make them look authentic.

Oh, I give up!

[GTB]

I am in the process of reorganising my Canadian collection and attempting to create a database, not only for my benefit, but for my immediate family which hasn't a clue when it comes to militaria.

Bill and Dave, as proven experts in the field, I value your judgement. This has evidently been gotten over long years of studying and handling items and you never had any compunction in sharing your knowledge for the benefit of all.

Incidentally, the first badge I picked at random was the SOO Rifles. From the info above it is most likely a restrike but I am out of my depth here so I would like a second opinion before definitely relegating badge as such. Unfortunately, I cannot recall how I obtained it.
GTB

[Bill A]

For some reason I completely missed David's point. The dies used for the badge you have were another set of dies, but not the original ones. The badges would be be better classified as reproductions vis a vis the discussion about the use of the terms reproduction and restrike.

[Bill A]

David, my apologies. I missed the point of your post. The dies used for the slidered pattern badge are completely different. There is no evidence that badges from those dies were issued or worn by the 51st Soo Rifles.