Commando dagger worn with Commando shoulder titles

[sailorbear]

Hi all, Sorry another question. In the 1990's when I was serving in the Royal Navy, I noticed that Royal Marines had started wearing the triangular red on blue commando dagger under their Royal Marines Commando shoulder titles, previously I had only seen army personnel, who had passed the All Arms Commando Course wearing the dagger. My question is? Did Royal Navy Commando qualified personnel also start wearing the commando dagger under Royal Navy Commando shoulder titles, or was it only a Royal Marine thing?

Regards

Tony

[54Bty]

From April 1997 to April 2002 a slightly different colour (not really noticable) of Commando Dagger badge with a merrowed edge was adopted as the 3 Commando Brigade Formation Badge. To be worn by all members of the Brigade.

Marc

[Alan O]

The red AACC dagger was worn on the left arm by Army personnel. The black Cdo bde badge was on the right arm.

[sailorbear]

Cheers Marc and Alan, very useful, many thanks!

[grey_green_acorn]

As referred to by Marc in post 2

Tim

[Colin S]

Originally Posted by Alan O

The red AACC dagger was worn on the left arm by Army personnel. The black Cdo bde badge was on the right arm.

Just to clarify this a bit regarding wear on DPM combat dress. The black triangular badge with red dagger was worn on left shoulder as a Commando qualification by the Army after 1976. (The Army replaced it with black-on-green shoulder titles reading ‘Army Commando’ shoulders for combat dress in 2008.) The Royal Marines revived it briefly again as a brigade formation badge on the left shoulder in 1997, together with black-on-olive green ‘Royal Marines Commando’ shoulder titles.

In 2002 this was replaced by a black dagger on an olive green square as the 3 Commando Brigade formation. (This had first surfaced as an unofficial 3 Cdo Bde RM formation patch during Exercise Bright Star in the U.S.A. in the mid 1990s. I saw it worn on the right sleeve of parachute smocks worn by 29 Commando Regiment RA.) When it was resurrected in 2002, it was worn on the right arm by the RM, and the Army followed the same practice, until the Army moved formation badges to the left arm and put arm-of-service TRFs on the right sleeve when MTP uniforms were introduced. The RM then switched their Brigade badge to the left arm on MTP.

However, on the recently introduced Future Commando Force multi-cam uniform it is back on the right arm for the Marines (but the Army continue to wear it on the left arm as a formation badge on their MTP). Confusing!

[Colin S]

Originally Posted by sailorbear

Hi all, Sorry another question. In the 1990's when I was serving in the Royal Navy, I noticed that Royal Marines had started wearing the triangular red on blue commando dagger under their Royal Marines Commando shoulder titles, previously I had only seen army personnel, who had passed the All Arms Commando Course wearing the dagger. My question is? Did Royal Navy Commando qualified personnel also start wearing the commando dagger under Royal Navy Commando shoulder titles, or was it only a Royal Marine thing?

Regards

Tony

The Routine Order introducing the 3 Commando Brigade red-on-black dagger formation badge in 1997 specifies that Commando trained Army and Royal Navy ranks are to wear the badge on the left shoulder of DPM uniforms.

[Colin S]

Duplicate post, so deleted - apologies!

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Colin S

The Routine Order introducing the 3 Commando Brigade red-on-black dagger formation badge in 1997 specifies that Commando trained Army and Royal Navy ranks are to wear the badge on the left shoulder of DPM uniforms.

Cheers Colin S, Must admit throughout my time in the RN, serving mainly serving alongside the Corps, I never saw an RN Commando wearing the red on black dagger, I did at RNH Haslar, see the dagger on the green square, around 96/97, and was unsure what it denoted at the time? Great to unravel the mystery though, every day a school day!

Regards

Tony

[Colin S]

Originally Posted by sailorbear

Cheers Colin S, Must admit throughout my time in the RN, serving mainly serving alongside the Corps, I never saw an RN Commando wearing the red on black dagger, I did at RNH Haslar, see the dagger on the green square, around 96/97, and was unsure what it denoted at the time? Great to unravel the mystery though, every day a school day!

Regards

Tony

Like you I have never seen a RN Commando wearing the red on black dagger and wonder if it’s another case of what’s on paper not being the same as reality? The green beret and ‘Royal Navy Commando’ shoulder titles seem to be all that was/is worn by sailors on camouflage kit.

Also the RM orders regarding the black dagger on OG square seem to ban its use by non-commando trained personnel but non Commando trained Army ranks posted into 29 Cdo Regt RA or 24 Cdo Regt RE seem to wear it as their formation badge regardless of their lack of Commando qualification - the green beret and ‘Army Commando’ shoulder titles being the signs of a Commando trained rank.

[Alan O]

On Telic 1 the RM presented the Cdo dagger formation sign to the Cavalry sqn supporting them. They wore it for the rest of the war and I believe put a request in to wear it afterwards on Mess kit which was rejected.

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Colin S

Like you I have never seen a RN Commando wearing the red on black dagger and wonder if it’s another case of what’s on paper not being the same as reality? The green beret and ‘Royal Navy Commando’ shoulder titles seem to be all that was/is worn by sailors on camouflage kit.

Also the RM orders regarding the black dagger on OG square seem to ban its use by non-commando trained personnel but non Commando trained Army ranks posted into 29 Cdo Regt RA or 24 Cdo Regt RE seem to wear it as their formation badge regardless of their lack of Commando qualification - the green beret and ‘Army Commando’ shoulder titles being the signs of a Commando trained rank.

I never have been able to make sense of it! I've seen non commando trained personnel, both army and RN wearing the square when posted to the Commando Logistics Regiment, The Rifles, attached to 3 Cdo Bde in Afghanistan wore it, but very few were commando trained, and I've seen a wren in blue PCS wearing the square at RM Tamar! All very confusing.

Tony

[Colin S]

The black dagger on olive green square can only be regarded as a formation patch for 3 Cdo Bde RM and in no way represents actual commando qualification. I attach a photo of a blue beret 131 Squadron RE sapper awaiting his place on the Reservist Commando course - note the formation patch on left arm.

[Phill Lockett]

Hi team

I want to bring this thread back as I have this Commando Dagger badge that I want to go with this RMCDO title c 1960-80's(?).

However I'm unsure. It looks c 1954-70's era.

My questions are:

In which Post WWII era would this have been used?1950's-80's/1990's/2000 etc...

Post WWII, has this always been known as All Arms Commando Course/ Commando Dagger or was there another name for the badge before AACC was introduced?

I have WWII era paste backed and modern era AACC badges but no in between 1950-80's era.


cheers

Phill

[Phill Lockett]

I might have answered my question its probably modern era badge ie post 1990's-2000 based on a DPM jacket.

Below is my thread.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ghlight=JACKET


Phill