British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Infantry (& Guards) Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-04-21, 07:38 PM
Hampshiregunner Hampshiregunner is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 2
Default KRRC Slide or Rings

Hi all, I’ve been offered a KRRC badge from the years 1901 to 1905, that is the K/C version without the two Ladysmith honours.
It’s not cheap, but I wouldn’t expect it to be cheap considering the rarity, so I want to be sure I’m getting value for money.
I reckon the face of the badge is spot on - all the right honours etc. but my doubts concern the back.
At sometime in its life someone has made a very shoddy, amateurish attempt at soldering rings on the top arm. It’s clearly a botch job but the real problem for me is that I don’t know whether the badge had a slide or rings originally. There is marking on the back of the crown which could be from a slider being removed.
Given a fair price I would buy the badge (because the face is most likely genuine) and go about getting a good job of removing the solder and fitting replacement rings or slide.
There is a space in my collection, on a board titled ‘Pre Great War’, just waiting for this badge . . . so any advice would be welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15-04-21, 08:11 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

My thoughts would be to wait for a better example to cross your path in it's original condition.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampshiregunner View Post
Hi all, I’ve been offered a KRRC badge from the years 1901 to 1905, that is the K/C version without the two Ladysmith honours.
It’s not cheap, but I wouldn’t expect it to be cheap considering the rarity, so I want to be sure I’m getting value for money.
I reckon the face of the badge is spot on - all the right honours etc. but my doubts concern the back.
At sometime in its life someone has made a very shoddy, amateurish attempt at soldering rings on the top arm. It’s clearly a botch job but the real problem for me is that I don’t know whether the badge had a slide or rings originally. There is marking on the back of the crown which could be from a slider being removed.
Given a fair price I would buy the badge (because the face is most likely genuine) and go about getting a good job of removing the solder and fitting replacement rings or slide.
There is a space in my collection, on a board titled ‘Pre Great War’, just waiting for this badge . . . so any advice would be welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15-04-21, 08:49 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,913
Default

I would say it all depends on the price. Missing or poorly replaced fixings for me in most cases knock off minimum 50% value.

On most dealers list these retail at around £125-150 but some greedy dealers ask far more.

You could also consider getting it professionally repaired which would make it look almost as good as new, but that would come at a cost you would need to factor in.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15-04-21, 09:35 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,736
Default

My example has lugs / loops, not a slider.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15-04-21, 10:05 AM
gb64's Avatar
gb64 gb64 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 1,347
Default

Mines on loops also

Gerard
__________________
Always interested in buying cap badges to the Middlesex Regt-Hertfordshire Regt-The Rifle Brigade
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15-04-21, 11:06 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,913
Default

The 1902-05 KRRC can be found on slider or loops.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15-04-21, 11:21 AM
Keith Blakeman's Avatar
Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Staring into space, just wishing I had a desk.
Posts: 2,951
Default

If fitted with loops they're generally found on the upper part of the E & W cross arms and remains ought to be visible.

There are two different sizes of this badge too, the FSC which has measurments the same as the Victorian crowned version and then the larger one which is slightly smaller than the post-1905 Ladysmith.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15-04-21, 11:41 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

The loops versus slider is datable by the type of hat in use. In 1902 the new k/c badge was lugged for the FSC (side cap). The introduction of the new Pattern (NP), popularly known as the Brodrick, saw the change to a vertical shank fitting. This was later used in a shorter version for the peaked cap which replaced the Brodrick hat.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15-04-21, 07:17 PM
Jelly Terror's Avatar
Jelly Terror Jelly Terror is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,783
Default

Examples of all three fixings for Pattern 884D/1903 ('for new pattern forage cap and foreign service helmet'). Obsolete as of 13th December 1905 - replaced with Pattern 884E/1905 (KK2011) in order for additional honours to be added. All three badges shown below measure approximately 50mm in height:

675 b2.jpg 675 d2.jpg 675 e2.jpg


(Cropped image below from National Archives File WO359/14)
NA WO359-14.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16-04-21, 02:43 PM
Hampshiregunner Hampshiregunner is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 2
Default

Great response. Thank you all. I was thinking I’d attach photos of the badge but I can’t see how it’s done on this forum (whatever happened to clear, simple, easy to grasp instructions?)
However I proceed I’ll have to remove the botch job on the back. The seller is asking for £140 or make an offer. Luke H has mentioned that repairs of the sort necessary should reduce the cost by 50%. I might try.
I guess the simple approach will be, as suggested by Frank Kelley, to wait until another example pops up . . . there are plenty of others that need (Glengarry, Yeomanry, Volunteers) that’ll keep me interested.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16-04-21, 02:50 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,913
Default

Wow. The seller is taking the Michael there.

Either they’re a extortionist or massive chancer. Whichever it is they do not sound like they are reasonable or are worth doing business with. In this instance I would take Frank’s advice.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16-04-21, 05:38 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

I would be prepared to pay £20 for such a damaged badge. The seller is not getting that money for a perfect example!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17-04-21, 10:01 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,562
Default

When I originally replied to you I was simply thinking of the way I always used to collect cap badges and notwithstanding the price, I just would never be happy with a badge like that you described.
I remember one of the first examples that I bought, from a then, very well known dealer (who really should have known better) at Stockport Town Hall, back in the days when fairs really were quite spectacular, for seven and a half quid, very happy times.
The point is simply that another example will turn up, they are not rare, although, more people do seem to collect these days, but, you will get one in due course.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampshiregunner View Post
Great response. Thank you all. I was thinking I’d attach photos of the badge but I can’t see how it’s done on this forum (whatever happened to clear, simple, easy to grasp instructions?)
However I proceed I’ll have to remove the botch job on the back. The seller is asking for £140 or make an offer. Luke H has mentioned that repairs of the sort necessary should reduce the cost by 50%. I might try.
I guess the simple approach will be, as suggested by Frank Kelley, to wait until another example pops up . . . there are plenty of others that need (Glengarry, Yeomanry, Volunteers) that’ll keep me interested.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17-04-21, 12:48 PM
Keith Blakeman's Avatar
Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Staring into space, just wishing I had a desk.
Posts: 2,951
Default

I’ve bought more than one for less than a tenner where the seller hadn’t noticed the battle honours.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-04-21, 03:13 PM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 5,913
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
I’ve bought more than one for less than a tenner where the seller hadn’t noticed the battle honours.
I live in hope of that happening... 23 years and counting so far!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:35 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.