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#31
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Do you have the original packaging that the JR Gaunt London Ltd marked Motto badge came in? Regards Chris |
#32
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... George Kenning was an enterprising young man, who in 1860 was employed by Edward Stillwell & Sons. He had the temerity to ask for a rise and was promptly sacked. He set up his own firm mainly concerned with uniform trimmings and regalia. ... Toye had not been working in a vacuum unaffected by competition. There were other firms competing for the same markets, but it was not until 1956 that the purely family aspect of the business altered. The firm of George Kenning & Spencer decided they could not continue in business and offered their shares to Toyes. The names of Kenning and Spencer were bywords in the business world in which Toye operated. ... In 1957 Edward Stillwell & Sons went into voluntary liquidation and Toye & Co. took over the remaining staff and plant. Mr Clarence Stillwell who was in control at the time had lost both sons in the war and there was no one left to carry on the business. ... Despite the absorption of George, Kenning and Spencer into the company many years previous, the title of Toye, Kenning and Spencer to represent all components of the firm only came to being in January 1962. ... |
#33
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Chris
Is the "J.R.GAUNT LONDON LTD" marked Motto then a Firmin production post the acquisition of Gaunt (and its dies) ..... going on what you have said in post #24 If it is are they showing deference to Gaunt by keeping their makers mark because of the die used (adding "LTD" as a difference)?
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#34
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In a talk by Keith Riddle, London Badge & Button Company, given on 18 October 1997, to the Birmingham Branch of The British Button Society, he said that he (i.e., LB&BC) had bought "Gaunt's stock" [for a fraction of its value; he gave the figures]. He did not give the date of purchase, nor say how he disposed of it. Does anyone know more of this? If not, I will ask him, when I get a chance.
Rex |
#35
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The first thing youn need to realise is that there are two different J.R.GAUNT LONDON LTD markings - see earlier posting. One is a quite genuine Gaunt mark and has been found on badges attached to sealed pattern cards. An example of such can be found in the Imperial War Museum. This version of the mark though is very scarce. The second marking comes with a full stop following the 'LTD'. There are other striking differences too but I'll keep them to myself for now. The full stop is not always easy to see but is there if you look for it. This mark is common and found on the TAVR III units that were disbanded before the A/A badge was officially authorised for them. An example is Alan's post re: Dorset Territorials example on eBay. However, this mark is also found on A/A badges for units that were still in service in the 1990's - again, quite commonly found as per your Motto example. As asked, if any packaging exists for this badge I would like to see it. I believe that the later Gaunt London Ltd marks (with full stop) was used by Firmin. My reason for this is in the book with an example to back up my theory. Regards Chris |
#36
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This is very interesting - if you find out any more info I would like to hear of it. Regards Chris |
#37
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Chris
Thanks for that, below is the Dorset and the Dodgy Motto together and you can clearly see the difference!
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro Last edited by GriffMJ; 15-01-13 at 09:17 PM. |
#38
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Not really. If the badge was made during the era of service then it will be OK. Other examples are The King’s Own Royal Border Regiment and The Queen’s Lancashire Regiment. I'm sure that there will be many more too. Regards Chris |
#39
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Chris
So, its a good mark on the Motto? Clear as mud!? Phil has the packet for the London Ltd Motto I believe, he is busy taking some photos...
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#40
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Hi Griff,
I would say that the badge is good although it may have been made be Firmin. When you get a copy of the book you can check out what I have written. Of course, I may well be wrong but I'll leave that for yourself and others to decide. Regards Chris |
#41
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Chris ......have you got a copy I can buy now?
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#42
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Hi Griff,
Advance copies have been sent out - should get to recipients this or next week. Main shipment believed to be on the high seas on its way to me. see: www.aacapbadges.com All details with example pages there. Regards Chris |
#43
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Just read the Chapter 6 , 6.5 "example" page on your webby.... all has become clear now
__________________
Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#44
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Hi Chris & Griff
Sorry Phil has been asleep ! 1 No Chris I dont have any packaging, it would just have come in an envelope from the regt, had there been any packaging I would have kept it. 2 There is no dot after Ltd 3 I also have an AA Motto marked J. R. Gaunt B'ham with no dot after B'ham. Griff I think that I have sorted the photo problem out and if so l will send you copies of all the AA Mottos for your refference. Regards Phil. |
#45
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Thank you Phil.
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
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