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  #16  
Old 12-05-21, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borderer View Post
The Green over time gets lighter with age, but originally dark green.

Best
Hiram
Hiram,

Nice example of a dicing.

Gerry
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  #17  
Old 13-05-21, 02:55 PM
Trubia26 Trubia26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
The older Grosgrain was made from Rayon, which was also used for the ribbon tails.
CB
20210513_163908.jpg

Finally I bought...and as you can see the material used for the band is the same used for the ribbon tails...I agree with all of you that it is not an army issue glengarry...but I think it is wartime and I want to think that maybe, just maybe, belongs to a scottish soldier...to dream its free!
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  #18  
Old 13-05-21, 03:26 PM
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It must be me but this thread has got me a bit confused ( not difficult nowadays :confused) Iíve read it all a few times but itís got me lost if not army issue are you saying itís not a military glengarry? Or private purchase worn but still military? It looks a perfectly good example to me .

Gerard
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  #19  
Old 13-05-21, 03:47 PM
Trubia26 Trubia26 is offline
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Well...I am a rookie about this...I only know that is not an army issue glengarry (not WD stamp inside) so I think it could be civilian or (I wish) a private purchase military glengarry...sorry if this thread confuse you...I am afraid I don't know too much about glengarries...just that I like them!
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  #20  
Old 13-05-21, 04:00 PM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
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I see by the close up photo that the binding and ribbons are silk. A nice officer's Glen. I think the confusion that people have here is in regard to WD issue uniform items and officer private purchase uniform items. As I mentioned earlier, virtually all officer uniform items in the old days were not issued by the Government. They had to be purchased from private military tailors by the officer. This Glen could have been purchased by an officer for service wear, or a civilian for whatever reason as well. There is no difference and unless there is provenance, no way to tell. It is military pattern and I would be quite comfortable in having it as such.

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  #21  
Old 13-05-21, 08:03 PM
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Yes...I am really Happy for having this glengarry in my collection and I am really thankfull to you because your opinions made me bought this beautiful Glengarry!!
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  #22  
Old 14-05-21, 11:07 PM
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Trubia,

I have enlarged your original photograph of the logo inside and I can tell you it says 'Romans & Patterson' and the last bit is 'Edinburgh' this firm have traded on Princess St Edinburgh since 1830's specializing in Tartans and other Scottish garb for the tourist and private purchase. They do not and never have held a Clothing Warrant to supply uniform items for the military. Take Jardine's of Edinburgh for example they do have a Warrant and are supplied with the various regiments pattern books to ensure what the supplied is in keeping within the dress regulations, be it for an Officer or OR's. I have attached a short history of the makers of your Glengarry. It may well have been a private purchase by an officer or soldier, but as there are no badge holes it has never been worn on military service, but may have been worn by the tartan Army or at Murrayfield.

OR's Military Glengarries came with a code stamped inside, however, Officers are a private purchase, for example our regimental approved tailor was Mayer & Mortimer, who hold our pattern books see picture of the said book.

Best
Hiram


Romanes & Patersons.
Were a well-known and long-established Tartan dealers of 62 Princes Street, Edinburgh. In the early 1960s the Newtonmore Clan MacPherson museum was presented with a large leather-bound volume containing the collection of specimens of Clan Tartans compiled by Messrs. Romanes & Paterson, This volume was presented on 9th August, 1839, by the firm to the museum of H. M. William, Esq., as is recorded by a manuscript docquet thereon of that date.
The collection consists of sixty-nine specimens of hard tartan cloth, measuring in most cases approximately 12-inches by 9-inches, carefully bound at the edges and representing setts allocated at the time of publication to almost the same number of Highland Clans and Lowland families. Romanes & Paterson's collection must have been compiled prior to 1839, probably round about 1830. Logan, the author of The Scottish Gael, published in 1831, was engaged in collecting tartans prior to that date and Messrs. Stewart Christie & Co., George Street, Edinburgh, have a pattern book of tartans which, it is thought, was compiled in 1820-1830. This collection consists of specimens of tartan cloth as in the case of Romanes & Paterson's book. There is a similar collection, dated 1815, compiled by General Sir William Cockburn and now in the Mitchell Library, Glasgow. In response to enquiry, Romanes & Paterson could not give any authentic information as to the date or origin of their collection.
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File Type: jpg KOSB Leslie Tartan Patch Pattern Book.jpg (58.5 KB, 9 views)
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  #23  
Old 14-05-21, 11:16 PM
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I agree with Hiram especially on the very salient point of lack of holes for a badge.

Like you said itís free to dream but I fear any military connection in the case of this glengarry is just that.

As the saying goes - it is, what it is. Quite simply in this case that means a well made and attractive glengarry of some quality. A nice piece worth treasuring
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  #24  
Old 15-05-21, 05:52 AM
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Hiram,

Spot on, there are numerous tourist shops in Edinburgh (and have been for a long time) selling Glengarries, some are downright dreadful, others look the part but from a military perspective are not the real deal and would stand out on parade.

There are loads of fake or made-up items on auction and dealers sites which I have to laugh at, wrong badge to the style etc, if you want the real thing buy one with a makers name, WD stamp, NATO stock number or even better worn with an original cap badge, some are expensive others are within most budgets.

Good piece about Romanes & Patersons.

Gerry
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  #25  
Old 15-05-21, 01:21 PM
Trubia26 Trubia26 is offline
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Well...again, thanks a lot to all of you for the valuable info and opinions you leave in here ...militar or not I am Happy with this glengarry and really happy for getting so many help from people with so many knowledge about this. It is a pleasure to come here and read you!
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  #26  
Old 15-05-21, 01:53 PM
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Hi Luke H and Gerry,

Thank you, here is some useful information when it comes identification of Scottish Regimental Glengarries issued by ordinance stores, obviously officers Glengarries are a different animal, but nevertheless, must conform with the pattern books.

Best
Hiram

Headdress markings which includes Glengarries.

For example : P is the date letter for 1941 and 1947, see table below, throughout for WWII markings it is usually underneath.

WWI headgear sometimes uses a P as party of the WD code markings.

T =1937 & 1956 *, s =1938 & 1957, r = 1939 & 1948, q =1940, p =1941, o =1942, n =1943, m =1944 & 1953,
z =1945, l =1945, 1946 & 1953, e, p =1947 *, r=1948, a =1949, b, a =1950 *, b =1951, c =1952, l =1953,
m =1954, d, o ,t =1955 *, t =1956 & 1937, s =1957, f =1958, x =1959 *.

The letters are believed to relate to the Depots tasked with Receipt and storage.
In Sept 1915 these were:
Pimlico (London)
Olympia (London)
White City (London)
Marylebone (London)
Leeds
Manchester (Trafford Park) Only set-up for receipt of US and Canadian Made Uniforms and in process of shutting down)
Possible other: Glasgow, and Dublin. Stamps I have encountered are E, L, M, N, O, P
I believe that
L=Leeds
M=Marylebone
O=Olympia
P=Pimlico
All Caps have either an O for caps made 1915-early 1917 or a P for deliveries after early 1917. Interestingly, several caps have come to the surface that have stamps from 1918-1922 using the pre-war RACD system that Pimlico used of W/ID over number over date.
This leads one to believe caps were coming into PIMLICO and the system reverted back to pre-war ways of doing business circa 18/19.

Below is a useful guide on Scottish Regiments Glengarries, although the colours are not exact in shade or definition, beware you can find copies of for sale sometimes, a good oily inside is a WW1 trait and off having been well worn, holes are also important where badges went, all these little things ticked and help one authenticate the real deal.
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File Type: jpg Scottish Regimental Glengarries.jpg (68.2 KB, 14 views)
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For Gold the merchant ploughs the main,The Farmer ploughs the Manor;But Glory is the Sodger's prize,The sodger's wealth is honor:The brave poor SODGER ne'er dispise,
Nor count him as a stranger; Remember he's his Country's stay,In day and hour of Danger.

Last edited by Borderer; 15-05-21 at 10:28 PM.
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