Shropshire LI Victorian Forage Cap Badge

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Here is my latest find that I'm rather chuffed with. From my notes this is a Victorian Shropshire Light Infantry (officers) forage cap badge/star circa 1881-1897. I don't have any references that illustrate this particular badge but have made notes on examples I have seen described before, so if you have a book/reference for this pattern of badge then please let me know?

On arrival the badge was really grubby and the original green cloth backing was totally faded out. I decided to give it a little TLC, a gentle clean with a soft brush and warm soapy water, replace the green cloth (original kept safely) and it has come up really well.

The first photo shows a comparison - before and after and the second photo shows the badge disassembled and prior to cleaning, note how faded the material is, as you can see the original green colour where it was behind the bugle.

From my notes; there are supposed to be two versions of this badge, the early example with cloth backing and a later example with enamel backing (both green). This badge clearly has the cloth backing, so one would presume that it is the early version. However this is where it gets interesting as both of the version I have seen have the surrounding disc in gilt whereas this example is (green) enamel (now faded a little) with raised silver letters. The whole badge is in silver (or silver plate) and has an original pin fitting.

I can only assume that this badge maybe an unrecorded version of the early type (?).

Whatever the history, a beautiful little badge that I'm thrilled to have found.

Thoughts, comments, critique and ideas always welcome.

Cheers, Roy.

P.s. I know the new green cloth backing looks black but trust me it is green, just dark green and difficult to photograph.

[Alex Rice]

Very nice. Thanks for showing it.

[Toby Purcell]

Lovely badge and one that I had never heard of before. Thank you for posting.

[Peter Brydon]

Roy,

Another superb badge. It may be illustrated in the series of articles by the Geoff Archer Parfitt, a one time curator of the KSLI museum,in the MHS Bulletins in the 1960`s. It is a pity that the illustrations in these old articles are not up to modern standards and you cannot see the details of the badges.

( When there was a Liverpool Branch of the Military Historical Society in the 1970`s an outing was organised to Shrewsbury and by arrangements made by Geoff for the branch we were able to visit the then 4 separate military museums in the town. These were the Light Infantry Museum in Sir John Moore Barracks, The Shropshire Yeomanry and Shropshire RHA Museum, The Queens Dragoon Guards Museum and the KSLI (Territorial ) Museum in the Drill Hall,Coleham.- A great day out )

Peter

[2747andy]

Roy,
another cracker for your collection and thanks for sharing! I've got the smaller (30 x 30 mm) FSC/SD badge, I think No11 on the image Peter has added above!

Another cracker (sadly not for sale )

Enjoy!

Andy

[Peter Brydon]

Andy,

Another great badge.

For some reason I have been having problems downloading pictures on the Forum. I couldnt add the key in my earlier post,hope it can be added now.

Peter

[2747andy]

Thanks Peter!

Roy,
seems you have the HP badge and mines the Forage cap!

Andy

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Thanks Peter!

Roy,
seems you have the HP badge and mines the Forage cap!

Andy

Andy,

You have mis read the numbers.
Roys is 2 or 4.

regards

[2747andy]

Simon,
many thanks! "Silly Me"

Andy

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Thanks so much for all your kind and informative comments.

Peter, some great references, many thanks for sharing. Gosh the Drill Hall at Coleham... that brings back memories! My ACF unit was based in a building a hundred yards away and we used to parade in the Drill Hall. There was a small bore/.22 range out back. This was the first place I learned to shoot and march.

Just to clarify - my badge is the forage cap badge like Andy's (later) wonderful examples as despite the quality/detail the badge is only 31mm is size. Nice to know there are larger sizes of this design. Something to look out for.

I will add a photo of it in my hand for perspective. A little beauty this gents and from my home town. And if that wasn't good enough it cost very little off eBay..! Bargains can still be had apparently .

Cheers, Roy.

[Mercian]

A good thread all round, a great response from the Forum. Well done.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Roy,
another cracker for your collection and thanks for sharing! I've got the smaller (30 x 30 mm) FSC/SD badge, I think No11 on the image Peter has added above!

Another cracker (sadly not for sale )

Enjoy!

Andy

What a beauty Andy! Definitely a FSC badge rather than 'forage cap' as listed in the document. Presumably Nos 2 and 4 were for the 'staff cap' (vertically peaked forage cap with full gold braid on peak, a la Field and Foot Guard Officers today) and so should really be listed as a Staff Sergeants badge rather than Warrant Officers. There is still a lack of understanding in some quarters that all the 'battalion staff', and not just the sergeant major and bandmaster (both warrant officers after 1881), had worn 'special' quality dress.

It was greatly unjust in most respects that with the exception of the Foot Guards (and even them to a degree) almost all the remaining Staff Sergeant grouping saw their status hugely diminished over a very gradual period running from 1902 through to 1918, and beyond. Hard to imagine now, but (as well as the RSM and BM) the RQMS, Musketry Sergeant, ORQMS, Armourer Sergeant, Cook Sergeant (i.e. Master Chef), Signals Sergeant, Gymnastics Sergeant (PTI), Sergeant Drummer (Drum-major) and Pioneer Sergeant were all dressed up to the nines in staff caps, 1st class and Sergeant quality tunics (Guards and Line patterns as applicable) and armed with sword and carriage (slings).

There were a number of Line regiments that had similar, star shaped badges for such caps, including the Lincolnshire, Hampshire, Devonshire, East Surrey and East Yorkshire Regiments. I am so chuffed to have learnt that the KSLI did so for a period too. Always great to learn something new.