Unknown Guards Regiment Star/Badge: Identification Please

[Stafford Knot]

One for our Guards Regiments experts.

This five pointed star/badge was part of a lot Guards Regiments badges I recently bought.

It is white metal with copper lugs.

Can anyone identify it please? The centre letters are 'GMP'; Guards Military Police perhaps?

Thanks

Peter

[grenadierguardsman]

It's a fake Guards Machine Gun Regiment cap badge. Originals come with sliders.
Andy

[Luke H]

Am no Guards expert but can tell you that’s a fake Guards Machine Gun Battalion badge.

[grenadierguardsman]

Its on lugs, so fake. Looks really bright ( could be flash ) wrong metal used IMO.
Andy

[cbuehler]

Unfortunately these fake Guards MG Bn. badges are ubiquitous. Genuine examples seem to be rather scarce.

CB

[KLR]

Here's the proof - from War Office archives (I don't know much about Guards either - they clearly changed the name to Battalion later. The 'photographic evidence' came from Gds Mus)


Guards Machine Gun Regiment. Badge, GM with vertical shank. Pattern 3220/1919 sealed 06.02.1919. [i] Although just post-war, we might note that this badge was resealed with loops and pin as Pattern 3220A/1919 on 16.09.1919.[ii] Photographic evidence suggests that this short lived badge was only worn by the 4th (Foot Guards) Bn rather than the 1st (1LG), 2nd (2LG) and 3rd (RHG) Bns.

[i] TNA WO 359/17, 124

[ii] WO 359/17, 137. The unit was disbanded and this badge was declared obsolete on 13.02.1920 – WO 359/17, 174.

[Frank Kelley]

It really is tragic to see so many spurious badges around these days.

[Frank Kelley]

Is that not a reference to the GMGR, rather than the Battalion?

Originally Posted by KLR

Here's the proof - from War Office archives (I don't know much about Guards either - they clearly changed the name to Battalion later. The 'photographic evidence' came from Gds Mus)


Guards Machine Gun Regiment. Badge, GM with vertical shank. Pattern 3220/1919 sealed 06.02.1919. [i] Although just post-war, we might note that this badge was resealed with loops and pin as Pattern 3220A/1919 on 16.09.1919.[ii] Photographic evidence suggests that this short lived badge was only worn by the 4th (Foot Guards) Bn rather than the 1st (1LG), 2nd (2LG) and 3rd (RHG) Bns.

[i] TNA WO 359/17, 124

[ii] WO 359/17, 137. The unit was disbanded and this badge was declared obsolete on 13.02.1920 – WO 359/17, 174.

[Stafford Knot]

Thanks guys. That's cleared that up.

Thought it looked a bit too shiny and new.

Best

Peter

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Is that not a reference to the GMGR, rather than the Battalion?

I think your right Frank, i may have got mixed up. Machine Gun Guards.
Andy

[Toby Purcell]

The original post shows the badge of the Guards Machine Gun Battalion, which was formed just from Foot Guards machine gunners. The Guards Machine Gun Regiment, was intended to include the Horse Guards, but as stated, ironically they (for whatever reason) eschewed the new badge completely. Visual evidence via photographs shows that the new badge was operationally worn in Russia in 1919, and appears at home only in mixed groups where it is seen alongside the previous pattern of badge, as well as traditional badges of the Foot Guards, by officers and NCOs who were presumably yet to transfer across. Eventually, the last vestiges of the GMGR, mounted guard at Buck House just once, as a symbolic gesture (still in SD) before disbandment.

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

The original post shows the badge of the Guards Machine Gun Battalion, which was formed just from Foot Guards machine gunners. The Guards Machine Gun Regiment, was intended to include the Horse Guards, but as stated, ironically they (for whatever reason) eschewed the new badge completely. Visual evidence via photographs shows that the new badge was operationally worn in Russia in 1919, and appears at home only in mixed groups where it is seen alongside the previous pattern of badge, as well as traditional badges of the Foot Guards, by officers and NCOs who were presumably yet to transfer across. Eventually, the last vestiges of the GMGR, mounted guard at Buck House just once, as a symbolic gesture (still in SD) before disbandment.

Toby, i thought it was Machine Gun Guards ? Hence the MGG cypher ?
Andy

[magpie]

I don't know if this is of interest.

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by magpie

I don't know if this is of interest.

Thanks, but this is the Guards Machine Gun Regiment. The cap badge with the crossed vickers guns. And not the badge mentioned on this thread. Very interesting though, thanks.
Andy

[KLR]

Sorry, I think I posted the wrong reference - it's this one
Guards Machine Gun Corps. Badge, cap, WM with vertical shank. Pattern 3220/1917, sealed 28.03.1917. [i]
(it should be in MHS Bull 2015) [i] TNA WO 359/16, 58.





J