TAVR Question

[Mike H]

I think the "Knot" device alone is the arms to the de Stafford family.This could well be why the college of arms no noed its use on its own.

[Peter Brydon]

It appears that sometimes research shows that it is the case that what should have been worn may not have been worn.

In the 6th Edition of Edwards "Regimental Badges" prepared by Arthur Kipling ( of K and K fame ) in the TAVR section under "The Light Infantry and Mercian Volunteers" says the new regiment included "B" Staffordshire Company from 5th/6th Battalion The Staffordshire Regiment.

It goes on to state that before forming a company in this regiment the 5th/6th Battalion The Staffordshire Regiment wore a headdress badge of the Stafford Knot only.

The 5th ( Revised ) edition of Edwards shows the 5th/6th ( Territorial ) Bn,The Staffordshire Regiment headdress badge- The Staffordshire Knot in gold anodised.( line drawing )

Rosignoli and Whitehouse in "The Staffords 1881-1978" illustrate ( line drawing ) a cap badge of the L.I. and Mercian Vols. This just the Stafford knot but I cannot find a reference to the badge in the text and the type of metal is therefore unknown.

It appears to me that best evidence of what was worn is provided by soldiers who served in the units at the time.

P.B.

[Alan O]

It would appear that the regt wore the knot (there is a photo on the forum) but it did not have official approval for this practice.

Thus the badge in Hugh King's collection was not anodised aluminium. It was recently sold at Bosley's and was an anodised (shiny) metal badge.

I presume that this was a private order from the regt and this is why it was not the usual a/a but an unofficial metal. Confusion has arisen from poor referencing and Hugh King's use of the term anodised being interpreted as a/a. An error that has been repeated in other works.

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by Alan O

It would appear that the regt wore the knot (there is a photo on the forum) but it did not have official approval for this practice.

Thus the badge in Hugh King's collection was not anodised aluminium. It was recently sold at Bosley's and was an anodised (shiny) metal badge.

I presume that this was a private order from the regt and this is why it was not the usual a/a but an unofficial metal. Confusion has arisen from poor referencing and Hugh King's use of the term anodised being interpreted as a/a. An error that has been repeated in other works.

Here is a link to the picture originally posted by DAK580 with a later comment:

Unfortunately the photograph was only captioned ‘the 5/6th North Staffords about to embark for the annual camp 1st to 8th July’

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...8&postcount=25

[Mike H]

I believe that what your saying is correct Alan,i had a discussion with a local dealer on the subject in the late 1990`s.He said that he`d only come across one example since the 1970`s and it wasnt made from aluminium but had a shiny finish to it.

[William]

Dear All,

Here are a couple of images of the famous Staffs, 5th-6th TA Bn badge, formerly of H King's collection and purchased from Bosleys's in April 2006.

It was described in the postal sale catalogue as "Anodised", but, whatever the images look like, it is most certainly not aluminium.

Best rgds Staffs, 5th-6th TA Bn.jpg

Staffs, 5th-6th TA Bn, Reverse.jpg

[William]

Many apologies for the inaccurate post above.

On checking my records, I find I was informed some time ago that the badge was, after all, NOT from the collection of the late Hugh King.

Bosley's state that before the badge was offered for sale in their April 2006 sale, it was owned by a gentleman in Staffordshire, who had worn it in the late 1960's, when a member of the unit.

Sorry for any confusion my poor memory might have created.

Best rgds

[hagwalther]

Hi William,

...and if it ain't aluminium it most certainly is not anodised and I suggest you have recourse under the Trade Descriptions Act of your country to demand your money back from this auction house.

Do I detect a casting mark around the rim?

This occurs at the gap made at the join of two dies after molten metal (probably zink in this example) has been injected under high pressure into the dies.

If you look on the back of the badge are there any round circles either in positive or negative relief?

No officially authorised anodised aluminium badges were made by casting either open or closed.

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

Think thats been mentioned before Hagwalther.That it looks cast.
I that basically the badge is cast a then coated to make it shine and Mr King described it as anodised because he could think of nothing better to describe the finish of the badge.
A gilt type finish would probaly have been better.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Think thats been mentioned before Hagwalther.That it looks cast.
I that basically the badge is cast a then coated to make it shine and Mr King described it as anodised because he could think of nothing better to describe the finish of the badge.
A gilt type finish would probaly have been better.

That's right Mike but you would think that a major auction house would know what it was selling wouldn't you?

Regards

Chris

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

That's right Mike but you would think that a major auction house would know what it was selling wouldn't you?

Regards

Chris

You would Chris,but if theyve used K&K as a reference.Dealers make errors the same as we do.