60th Parachute Field Ambulance

[Brigade Piron]

Yes, I know this is post-1948 but this seemed the best place to put it. Please move it if not.

I would just like to know what badge would be correct for the Indian PFA sent to Korea? Also what colour should the beret be?

All the best & many thanks,

BP

[peter monahan]

The Imperial War museum has a collection of 110 photos taken in Korea 1950-1953, of which a number show members of the 60th PFA. sadly, none appear in colour so the best one can say is that the berets were a dark colour, darker than the khaki uniforms. Given their antecedents - British airbourne unit instructors when first formed and so on - Para red is a good guess, but only a guess.

Here is the link to the collection:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/se...&page=1&filter[termString][0]=%22Medical%22&filter[themeString][0]=%22Korea%201950-1953%22

Peter

[Brigade Piron]

Thank you for that! I think I'll suppose the beret was marroon (that's what the museum in Seoul has, though it's not terribly accurate on many things).

Any idea about the badge?

BP

[Brigade Piron]

I'm not an expert on Indian insignia - is there a cap badge that would approximate to this design?

[Brigade Piron]

Finally - a good lead!

http://images.google.com/hosted/life...f3a045a6eb0687

He seems to be wearing the colonial Indian Army Medical Corps Badge (with GIV crown)! Had the post-independance version not been designed yet? That would explain the design with the star on the previous photo.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Brigade Piron

Finally - a good lead!

http://images.google.com/hosted/life...f3a045a6eb0687

He seems to be wearing the colonial Indian Army Medical Corps Badge (with GIV crown)! Had the post-independance version not been designed yet? That would explain the design with the star on the previous photo.

You forrget that only in january 1950 India became a republic. Thus the crown was still normal after independance until that date. Thus the time for making a new design is only about half of what you are amazed about. My guess is that the Korean war still saw them in transition from the crown to the Star of India. The road sign being new and the cap badge still being kept by an old hand.

[Brigade Piron]

That's very interesting! I think that's the badge I will try to find then.

One thing I don't quite get is the addition of the star (which I was led to believe was used on the Pakistani Medical Corps badges along with a cresent) instead of the lions that are on the other types I have seen:

[Wmr-RHB]

The star in the Pakistani state emblem "crescent and star" is a different one (maby not in design, but in background).

In any case it is indeed interesting that you have now a Medical Corps emblem with a Star (on the road sign) and with the Lions of Ashoka. I guess that after India became a republic it took some time to settle down and designing badges may not have been the primary concern of the top brass, but lower down local initiative may have produced things that were changed later. The Lions one is used at present.

[Brigade Piron]

I agree. The only pics I can find with the lions on them are '70s, so you're probably right that it was a later adoption.

Must look for a G IV Indian Army Medical Corps badge...

[peter monahan]

"The star in the Pakistani state emblem "crescent and star" is a different one"

A five pointed star was used by the British Indian police, so may have been used - pre Lions of Ashoka - as a non-colonial, non-denominational symbol. It would have had some associations with the Raj, but not the blatant symbolism of a crown.

Keep in mind too that many of the Indian military were very proud of their history and may not have been nearly as eager as the politicians to 'ditch' all the old symbols. Current Indian armoured units, for example, still use the old imperial titles as subsidiary ones and even, I'm told on good authority, still display the battle honours their predecessors earned in the Mutiny, which some revisionist historians now refer to as 'the first Indian war of independence. It was not, of course - more like a particularly bloody labour dispute/cultural clash - but waving regimental banners with, for example, 'Siege of Delhi' on them can hardly be politically correct in modern India!

[Brigade Piron]

That's very interesting, do you think that a medical corps version exists with a star then or is it a hybrid in the sign painter's imagination?

This is all very interesting and an area I had no information on at all!

BP

[Brigade Piron]

Oh, I forgot to ask whether the A.M.C. shoulder slips were worn pre-independence? I am aware that the Indian Army Medical Corps (presumably abreviated to I.A.M.C.) changed to Army Medical Corps at some point...

[Milmed]

Here are two other Indian AMC beret badges other than the one displayed in the thread. One with crown as seen in the photographs and other with the star. The Pakistani badge has a star in a cresent.

Regards
Steven

[peter monahan]

Milmed -thanks for the posting! Answers the question very well.

Brigade Piron,

I believe that the 'IAMC' used that designation up to 1947, so almost certainly wore either embroidered slip-ons [WWII era] or brass shoulder titles [WWI period].

You should also know that Indian Army troops, even today, have access to privately made badges, often better quality than the issue ones, so it is quite possible that the 'star variant' was an early issue version or a private purchase commissioned by members of the unit who wanted something 'better' than whatever the Army was issuing officially, though I would tend to think the former. The joys of 'Indian collecting'!

Peter

[Brigade Piron]

Those badges are excellent Milmed! If you don't mind me asking, what is the going rate for the star badge and do you happen to know when they stopped being issued?

The topic sounds even more complicated than Belgian collecting! Particularly since no-one seems to sell any indian badges post-independence.

Definately interesting though!

All best & many thanks,

BP