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#16
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Some interesting badges. Some I like and others I unsure of. You have to ask yourself would a badge with a defect pass quality control?
Still no one has posted an example with the eagles head looking at 9 o'clock with a long tongue. There is actually a third possibility why the oval was not worn in India. The regiment did not of have enough badges to outfit the regiment in India. I`m afraid specualtion is all we can do since there is no left a live to explain why. Ive got two different regimental histories, I`ll have another read of those to see if I can find any mention.
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Mr Kipling - Exceedingly good badge books. Last edited by Jibba Jabba; 21-03-08 at 10:32 AM. |
#17
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Guys, I bought the 14th Hussars eagle badges (cap and collar) from the grandson (now in his late seventies) of a senior NCO in the 14th, some years ago now.
Do you think the larger one is for the pagri? PY. |
#18
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That's very nice.
It's an NCO's arm badge c.1906 an unofficial version according to Linaker & Dine Fig.34.7. Look like the mace has been bent up a bit, should be straight but a lovely badge none the less. |
#19
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Hi PY
Many thanks for showing the three 14H badges, a great find. This is the first time I have seen this version of the "Hawk" Arm badge, apart from the photographs in Linaker and Dine. Of particular interest are the lengths of the lugs on the oval badge. They look as though they could be long enough to be worn on the Foreign Service Helmet; sadly I am still waiting to see photographic evidence of it being worn on any type of headdress. I don't suppose your contact has some appropriate pictures as well does he?? That would be yet another wonderful find. Best wishes Gordon |
#20
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Gordon,
I have the actual arm badge as shown in L and D. Alan Last edited by Alan O; 13-02-17 at 09:01 AM. |
#21
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Very nice group indeed. Keith is absolutely correct the larger Hawk, a splendid example, is an unofficial NCO's arm badge as worn in India. I have one unfortunately damaged and worse for wear. Thank you for posting them. Regards Rob |
#22
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I got my paws on this quite recently. A 14H metal arm badge as described in Linaker and Dine (1997). The dimensions match plate 34.3 (43mm x 35mm) Loops NS 34mm. I believe it to made from German silver, but I will test that theory on the electron microscope/dispersive X-ray I have at work.
Gaz |
#23
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I have the same type of white metal/German Silver badge.
On the subject of the badge worn by KRH, I may be able to shed some light as I was involved in the discussions between the Regiments. RH trousers and 14/20 Hawk were agreed as a fair split with the proviso that the Hawk should be increased in size, have the FR returned to the chest and the trefoils and FR highlighted in gold together with the crown, orb and sceptre. This was at the behest of the Colonel of 14/20H. The design for the new KRH Hawk was approved but when the badges arrived they were a different shape and the ORs' badge did not have highlighted FR and trefoils. In addition the shank was positioned too low down on the badge and had to have the end snipped off as it would not fit the beret. The officers' badge was also the wrong shape but had the correct detailing. However, with not enough time before the amalgamation the ORs' badges were accepted and the SNCOs quickly adopted the officers' badge. It was not until 2004/5 that a new (this time brass) badge was struck for ORs in the correct shape as drawn by the College of Heralds and approved by HM The Queen in 1992. Since then, a black and gold badge in the correct shape has come out. So another confusing chapter added to the already convoluted history of the Prussian Eagle badge of 14LD/14H/1420H and KRH!! |
#24
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Hi rhussar
Thank you for your recent post. Given your "insider" information on the badges and uniforms of the KRH do you by chance have knowledge of or access to photographs of the 14th Hussars wearing the oval badge depicted. Such badges are relatively common with either sliders or lugs and in varying degrees of "simulated" antiquity but hard evidence of where and when these were actully worn is in short supply. Best wishes Gordon |
#25
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Please find attached images from the booklet: The Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794-1914 No.7 The Yorkshire Dragoons. Pages 21 & 23.
In both images the adjutant, a 14th Hussar Officer, can be seen wearing an Oval Cap Badge. Granted there is no clear detail, however what else could it be? What do you and other members think? Rob Last edited by Alan O; 06-12-15 at 08:13 PM. |
#26
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Hi Rob
Well done, I think you've got it! For those readers who have patiently (or otherwise) followed the saga of the lack of photographic evidence of the common 14th Hussars "Oval badge" together with the growing anxiety that that it may never have been worn at all, you may now rest easy thanks to the determined pursuance, with typical bulldog tenacity, by Robthereiver. Rob has attached two photgraphs of The Yorkshire Dragoons at Welbeck Camp in 1903. In both Captain W G Eley, 14th Hussars, sits with the Commanding Officer, Colonel the Earl of Scarbrough. Captain Eley is clearly wearing the oval 14H cap badge, this being the first photographic evidence I have seen. Well done Rob and thank you. That having been said I hope this will bring forth a torrent of pictures proving my previous reservations to have been ill founded. I hope so. It also raises the question, does anyone have what they believe to be an officer's version of this badge? Is it simply a matter of lugs for officers and sliders for soldiers? At the time, 1903, the would all have had lugs. Best wishes Gordon Last edited by 1stTankie; 29-03-13 at 03:58 PM. |
#27
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Rob
Left.... is an image magnified from the resolution you have used.... presumably 300dpi (standard). The image on the right is taken from a similar photo...... but scanned at a much higher resolution..... no fine detail.... but more clarity ![]()
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro ![]() Last edited by GriffMJ; 29-03-13 at 02:00 PM. |
#28
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Subjective statement - I have this book too. Using a magnifying glass and a calculator, I would estimate the resolution is ~108dpi. No scanner is going to correct that resolution. The resolution is hindering the identity of the badge. However the answer might lie in Bob Smith's original photograph, presumably sold on E-bay recently with all his notes on the Yorkshire Dragoons. There are a lot of folks who want it to be the oval badge including me, but consider that the 'Cartwheel' badge is a similar shape from a distance and almost same size, but has a scroll at the bottom. The scroll is seated about the same height as the chin strap, so it makes ID difficult as the chinstrip could be masking the scroll shape. I think we still need more proof before we can say that is proof of the badge being worn.
Gar |
#29
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Gar
I would not rely on the content of Smiths stuff...... certainly the "stuff" that I have acquired has been very poor photo copies of photocopies of bad scans etc. Overpriced for the quality of content.
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro ![]() |
#30
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Hi Gar
You're raining on our parade. In 1903 we were not at war with the Kaiser and therefore had no reason NOT to wear the Hawk. The cap badge of the 14th Hussars was not changed until 1915. So no matter how much we improve the number of pixels I shall be very surprised if we find a scroll hidden by Captain Eley's chin strap. Best wishes Gordon |
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