infantry officer's Torin cap

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by matti467

Terminus post quem
terminus ante quem

Like Julian I found myself reading Archaeology at uni and this was one of the first things we learned.

I was taught by the late Mr May MA BA (Oxon)
He was a brilliant linguist who had served his National Service in the RAF at Gatow. He spoke Russian, Czech etc.
The RAF Regiment on the airfield perimeter had to hold the Russians for 5 minutes so they could destroy all the papers and machines in the listening rooms.

Time after which
Time before which

As did I (reading archaeology that is) and I have been working in the "field" for 25 years and still am.

[KLR]

My thanks to Alan who answered my query in Post 5 !


(I use my museum / archaeology experience towards my hobby)

[Jeff Mc William]

Originally Posted by KLR

My thanks to Alan who answered my query in Post 5 !


(I use my museum / archaeology experience towards my hobby)

Hi Julian
Was my reply in Post 10 not of any interest ?

[KLR]

yes, see PM

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Jeff Mc William

Hi Julian
The questions you raised re the origins of the Infantry "Torin" cap are, to say the least, problematical as the following illustrations I have dug up would indicate :
It would appear that the earliest version of this undress headwear was adopted by the Royal Marines in the early 1800's … if this first image of unknown origin is to be believed. (note this is being worn by an OR).
Certainly, by c.1837, this contemporary painting by Augustus Earle shows an officer wearing such a headdress .. altho' it was then referred to simply as a "Field Service Cap".
The next illustration from Punch (13th May 1854) lampoons the new headdress now adopted by the Guards and called the "Albert Bonnet".
Just exactly when these were finally dubbed the "Torin cap" is still a mystery to me at least, and I would be grateful to anyone who can enlighten me.
The practice of wearing this cap by the remainder of the Infantry (and Cavalry) seems to have been sporadic and gradual from the late 1870's and indeed from various photos I have seen, was often mixed with both the Glengarry and the Austrian Field Service cap in a most unusual and casual manner. Similarly with the badges which were not always worn on the cap and were often derived from collar badges. Regards Jeff

Attachment 207585 Attachment 207586 Attachment 207587

I missed this Jeff and just wanted to add my support to all that you’ve said in this post. I reached the exact same conclusion some years ago and was most intrigued when I found the Royal Marine’s connection, it appears in a few contemporaneous paintings. Reaching a dead end regarding the ‘Torin’ descriptor, in desperation I wrote to the National Army Museum to ask formally. I received a reply from a rather bored collections curator who said she didn’t know but recommending that I enquire with the Victorian Wars Forum! This did make me chuckle as it was on that forum’s behalf that I was enquiring. I/we never did get to the bottom of the Torin moniker, which remains a mystery. Incidentally, one seemingly significant fact that I did discover is that the Torin’s usage in the British-Indian Army was by a large margin for much longer than its use by the British Army. It made me wonder if that is where the Torin link lies.

[Fifth Fusilier]

I was a regular officer in the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers in the 1960s until its amalgamation into the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers.

Our most prized item of uniform was the officers Torin Cap which was I believe unique in that the woven grenade cap badge was on the front of the cap, rather than at the side as in the examples given above. To the best of my knowledge we were the only infantry regiment at the time to wear this pattern cap. Some cavalry regiments did, but all with the badge on the side.

The thing is though that we never called it a Torin Cap. It was always called a Side Hat. I'd never even heard the expression Torin Cap until this week in a chance conversation with a collector of militaria.

I still have mine, so if anyone is interested I could forward a photo.