Scimitar and Star? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

DaveL · #1 29-11-09, 04:36 PM

I have found the attached cloth badge with my late father's possessions and I am intrigued to know what it signifies. I know he served with the Royal Enginers in WWII mainly in the middle and far east. I would be very grateful if it could be identified by one of the Forum members.

blackpowder44 · #2 29-11-09, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveL

I have found the attached cloth badge with my late father's possessions and I am intrigued to know what it signifies. I know he served with the Royal Enginers in WWII mainly in the middle and far east. I would be very grateful if it could be identified by one of the Forum members.

I am pretty sure that the badge is for U.S. forces in Persia. Alot of U>S> personell served in Persia to service the Rail route to southern Russia as well as delivering aid by wheeled transport. John.

Voltigeur · #3 29-11-09, 06:42 PM

Hi Dave, what you have here is an US Persian Gulf Command patch worn during WW2 by US troops in that aera of operation.Here are some info on the subject.

The Persian Gulf Command was a United States Army service command established in December 1943 to assure the supply of U.S. lend-lease war material to the Soviet Union. It's history originated in September 1941, when the U.S. Military Iranian Mission led by Engineer officer COL Raymond A. Wheeler (later CG) was established to facilitate lend-lease supply to the U.S.S.R. At this same time, the Iranian District of the North Atlantic Division was set up to provide construction support.

http://140.194.76.129/publications/e...1-42/c-5-1.pdf

Btw, welcome to the Forum.

Jo

DaveL · #4 01-12-09, 10:57 AM

Thank you both for the information. It enabled me to research it further and I found a description of a PGC shoulder sleeve insignia: "On a green shield 3 1/4 inches in height a 7 pointed white star above a red scimitar fimbriated in white bendwise, point up. The red scimitar from the flag of Persia represented the warlike spirit of the ancient Persians. The white seven pointed star is taken from the flag of the Kingdom of Iraq. It represents purity and the religion of the Middle East. The green colour of the shield denotes the agriculture of Persia in the olden days and also stands for Islam which is the religion of both Iran and Iraq." What a brilliant description and explanation.

Regards, DaveL

jubilationtcornpone · #5 01-12-09, 02:23 PM

Hi Dave,

I just finished reading this thread. Very interesting. The PGC is one of the forgotten theaters of WWII, no novels, no movies. I never had given much thought to any but US personnel serving there. Do you know if your father was assigned to the PGC or did he get this patch as a souvenir? I had never thought of the PGC as a combined HQ's, like SHAEF or CBI. Maybe it was. If you want to dig into this command and region deeper you might see if you can find a copy of The Persian Corridor and Aid to Russia, part of the US Army history of WWII series. I am assuming that you are located in the UK so that finding a copy could be difficult but not impossible. Warning- these books are dry as dust reading. One story that stands out was the impossibility of stringing telephone lines. The wire would be stolen for its copper almost as soon as it was put up.

Good luck and welcome aboard.

Don

DaveL · #6 03-12-09, 09:53 AM

Hi Don. From further research it appears that food and war supplies to the USSR were transported through Iraq and Persia from about August 1941. Transportation (road and rail) was the responsibility of the Royal Engineers and Indian Engineers working with the Persia and Iraq Command (PAIForce) whose badge (attached) I also found with my late father's possessions. The American Army took over in April 1943 and I would guess my father stayed during a hand-over period and was issued with the PGC badge. Regards, Dave

jubilationtcornpone · #7 03-12-09, 12:08 PM

Hi Dave,

Thanks for sharing. The PGC is the black hole of WWII history. I know nothing of the command relationships set up to run supplies to the USSR or who commanded, or how the headquarters was organized. I would imagine a lot of various units reported to it and wore its insignia. I don't know what individual records the British army produced for each service member but there must have been something to show your father's unit of assignment which would be traceable. He may not have left the area once the US took control of the theater. Somewhere I have a book on WWII insignia which may tell me what the elephant's head patch was. If I find anything I will let you know.

Don

blackpowder44 · #8 03-12-09, 01:59 PM

As a follow up to the previous info. I have been searching in my collection of Bumph and have found the paperwork below.First three are the loads carried and the last is the first page out of 11 giving an overall picture of the work carried out from the British side. I also have a souvanier booklet produced by the USA contingent with lots of pictures. If anyone would like to see some more info please ask, John.