Shoulder titles - opinion/comment appreciated please

[Ray6930]

Good Mrning All

Could anyone give opinion on originality of these in pictures please? Not looking for valuation or to sell but more to replace copies in my Commando case if any are good WWII originals.

Many Thanks
Ray

[Belly]

the 5s and 9 are okay, the 46 is okay but thought to be just post war
Hope this helps
Paul

[Ray6930]

CheersPaul - So the Brighton line (5 & 9) are good for the case, the 5's are not matching but I'll only be mounting 1 of them anyway. I can mount the 46 one also as am suspicious of the one currently in the case.
Do you happen to know era / originality of the RM Commando flash herewith?
Ray

[Mike B]

Hello Ray
Paul has it correct - just to be explicit both top ones are not correct. The red on Khaki No.4 Cdo appears in a book as correct - I retain two examples of this one as the quality of one in particular was very good - However it fails the UV light test. My bet is yours would too unfortunately.
The white on Red Special VI Service is wrong despite appearing in a couple of collections.
As for Royal Marine Commando titles - there are several threads on here about them and as far as I am aware they are fairly inconclusive regarding dates.
Mike

[Ray6930]

Many thanks Mike
Just the RN Commando one to determine now.
I've never done a UV test, one because I don't have a lamp and two because I wouldn't really know exactly what I was looking for (or not looking for). I have read about 'glow' result and think that is a bad sign. Maybe I'll have to invest in the light and get someone to explain it all to me.
Ray

[Belly]

White synthetic thread lights up under black light really noticeably. This test tells you whether it is synthetic or not, not necessarily whether its WWII or not. But as a general rule thumb, whilst synthetic thread was around I've never seen any compelling evidence of a genuine WWII British badges made from it.

[Belly]

They can be picked up for next to nothing, well worth having one, but only work on white thread!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-UV-T...8AAOSwGvhUGevN
and no I'm not the seller or can confirm whether they or their product is any good

[Ray6930]

Thanks Paul
Boy - that does glow!
Early Xmas gift to myself I think
Ray

[Mike B]

Hello Roy
I attach an example of a RN COMMANDO title - yours may be OK but I am not an expert of variants of these and need to do more research myself
Regards
Mike

[Tiger Pete]

Hi all,

This is not my area of collecting but just a thought with UV lamps; when these are used to determine counterfeit money, apparently, they can show genuine currency as 'fake' (I.e., it will flouress) if it's been through a washing machine. Apparently, this is due to the brightening agents in modern washing detergent.

If this is true, presumably, the same might apply to a genuine cloth badge if it'd been inadvertently washed?

KR,

Pete.

[Mike B]

Pete - That is a valid observation. A friend on this forum found exactly the same with a genuine LFA badge - where glow looked 'speckled' through later washing. The key can be in the form of 'glow' as Paul illustrates where clearly it is the letters that are synthetic material.
The moral is - UV lights are a useful piece of kit to HELP determine genuine items or not. Couple this with photographic evidence and sound research to inform opinion.
As Paul suggests - there were some items of insignia (mainly not British) which used synthetic material. For example Rayon was around in WW2. - and these would glow. So the test is not valid for everything.
Putting it in context for example - the thing about the red on khaki No4 COMMANDO is that 'logically' they would have to predate standardisation to red on black Commando titles - there is no photographic evidence of them doing so, no other supporting information exists, and they glow. As such it would be prudent to regard them as doubtful. As mentioned - I retain a couple but in the 'dubious' box - away from my main collection.
Regards
Mike

[Phill Lockett]

Gidday Ray

Here is my thread on the same 4 Commando title and more discussion.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...light=commando


Phill

[Ray6930]

Phil, thanks for the link. I followed it to other links and found it all very illuminating (if you'll excuse the pun to my next comment).
Paul, I got that black light thing from Ebay and tried it on the 4 title alongside the RN one. White threads within 4 definitely glowed while the front of the RN COMMANDO was just a dull bluesy white colour. Am guessing this confirms the 4 is duff but RN could be a good one.
Merry Christmas and grateful thanks to all who have commented.
Ray