1907 interesting RIrF cap badge use...

[red rags]

Thought this was just Broderick ? Cpl J Wallace.

[Alan O]

Pedantry alert - He was called Brodrick.

[red rags]

On a separate note when did the blues uniform first appear?

[Alan O]

Not sure of the exact date but the Blue Patrols were in use from the turn of the century.

The lack of collars is interesting. I assume the photo is circa 1905-06. I will see if I can find out the date of the smaller badges' introduction.

[red rags]

Thanks, pic is from 1907, football team from memory.

[Alan O]

It's odd that the coronet is missing. However there are photos of the same badge both with, and without, the coronet when worn on the Brodrick.

[John Mulcahy]

Thank you for posting this image, it is the second one I know of that shows pattern 4475A in use after it was officially replaced by pattern 4475B sealed
July 18,1906

The first image I refer to is in "The Irish on The Somme" by Stephen Moore Local Press Ltd (16 Jun. 2005), ISBN-13: 978-0954971519. It shown an R.I.F. O/R with a Brodrick pattern badge in his service cap - during the great war. Apologies I don't have the page number as my copy of the book is currently in storage.

It does not surprise me to see your image dated 1907 as;

1) When announcing changes of badge pattern, I very often see annotations in official documentation that "old stocks are to be used up first".

2) There are several recorded instances of long replaced badges being worn by soldiers on an individual or unit basis. There are several examples in Langridge's series of dress distinctions books from the 1950's (unit and individual levels) and more recently Robin Hodges book cites several examples of individuals wearing Victorian and Tudor crowned badges in the 2000's

So to see one used on the New “Universal” Pattern Forage Cap in 1907 by an individual when it's replacement was sealed in July of the previous year (1906) does not surprise me. It is quite intriguing that the coronet is not worn as Alan mentions. From memory a coronet is worn in the image worn in the book "The Irish on The Somme"

As regards is being just for the Brodrick, it is highly likely that when sealed this badge was sealed for both the Forage Cap and the Fioreign Service Helmet (FSH), ill check my records when home but this was the normal practice for forage cap badges at this time. In practice that meant the white FSH, no badges were ordered to be worn on the khaki FSH. In reality many regiments ignored regulations for the FSH.

The term “Brodrick Badge”used to describe this badge is a collectors term and not the official term. It was simply the Forage Cap Badge and the forage cap at the time happened to be the Brodrick. The records I have infer that the regiment requested the reduction in size but why is not explicitly stated. From what I have seen, it’s use on caps other than the Brodrick forage cap seems quite rare and erratic suggesting the regiment made the change relatively thoroughly and quickly.

May I ask for the source of the image in the opening post for my own records please?

John

[Frank Kelley]

The photograph certainly proves otherwise!

Originally Posted by red rags

Thought this was just Broderick ? Cpl J Wallace.

[red rags]

In Regt journal, must be '07...yes vol 6 no 51 facing p 9

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by red rags

In Regt journal, must be '07...yes vol 6 no 51 facing p 9

Thank you, much appreciated.

I looked up by scan of the entry in the Royal Army Clothing Department (RACD) list of changes (LOC) and the badge was sealed as "Badges for N.P Forage caps and F.S. Helmet with pith band, AR) sealed on the 2nd March 1903.

"N.P." = New Pattern, this is now the Brodrick was referred to in the RACH LOC at the time.
"F.S." =Foreign Service
"AR" =All Ranks

whether it ever actually made it onto the Foreign Service Helmet is another question.

John