badge ident

[davec2]

Hello gentlemen,
Am I in the right place for this question ?
I have had this badge for some time, it was bought from a dealer up north, his name has been mentioned on the forum in the past.
It was bought as a silver, officer's cap badge and it came through Marlow's, it is apparent that it is only plated, or even dusted but that isn't my problem.
Is it genuine ? or was I conned again at the time ?
I have used a repaired cadet's badge for sizing the one on the right and there is mention in K.& K. Vol 2, page 170 of a smaller badge but in design this one contradicts the info on both figures 1819 and 1820.
The back is quite rough so I'm standing up with the chance of someone shooting my head off ( been there before anyway !!)
Thanks in advance
Dave.

[Alan O]

Not sure about the silver one but the cadets is a repro - the oiginals were voided and lugged. Wilkinsons book shows one and I have owned one in the past.

Alan

[davec2]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Not sure about the silver one but the cadets is a repro - the oiginals were voided and lugged. Wilkinsons book shows one and I have owned one in the past.

Alan

Hello Alan, thanks for getting back so quickly, appreciated, I was told a long time ago about the void between the cadets and the shield etc and I've yet to obtain one but it is the one on the right that is worrying me !!!!
Dave.

[Luke H]

Hi Dave,

Have you asked Keith? My opinion for whatever its worth is I don't think its a good un.

I've always been told by Keith that quality is a big thing to look for in any badge to the London Regt and for me this wouldn't pass the muster for me as an ORs IMO. The back looks speckeldy as if it has been crudely sand cast whereas the good silver/sil plate badges I've seen all look very well made from the back being usually perfectly flush or with a regular impression of some kind (what I'm trying to get at is it looks a smart job even from the back)! Another point which makes me suspicous is the blades, I'm sure Malc will tell you silver or gilt or silv/gilt/en badges with blades are fairly unusal and are far more commonly found with lugs.

Again, the above is just my humble opinion and me speculating using what common sense and experience I have.

I hope I'm wrong and its a field made badge from India or something but I couldn't see a good quality British manufacturer of officers quality badges making that, sorry.

All the best,

Luke

[davec2]

Hi Luke,
I did ask him and it was one of the few occasions where Keith didn't want to commit an opinion, perhaps he felt that he had given me nothing but bad news for quite a while.
He had spent weeks assessing my very expensive collection ( from he who will remain nameless ), most of which turned out to be rubbish.
I have to admit that even I can't go on claiming to be ignorant for ever, otherwise people who are trying to educate me will give it up as a bad job, the back of this one is bad enough to make me realise, if not bazaar made, then garden shed it has to be, words like straw and clutching come to mind.
I wonder if the administrator can remove this thread ????
Dave.

[Sonofacqms]

For what it is worth, I picked up an OSD without the blades some years ago. It was smaller than the O/R's I had and I suspect it is the same size as this one. It now sits in my London collection and as far as I am concerned it's OK. I think your badge may be an OSD that has been cleaned off and silver plated.

[davec2]

hello sonofacqms,
Thanks for your assurance, I would like it to be good, the question now is, do I re-silver it ? or do I clean the silver off and bronze-wash it ??
regards, Dave.

Dave
There are two things I would like to point out firstly if these badges where purchased in Marlows auction then they are managed by Bosleys who are the top military auctioneers in the UK and all badges are as certain as can possbly be genuine if one is found to be suspect they will look at it and if it is a dodgy one that has béén missed they will give you a refund and secondly all silver badges normally have .925 and silver stamped at the rear of the bvadge
BLIZZARD

[davec2]

Originally Posted by BLIZZARD

Dave
There are two things I would like to point out firstly if these badges where purchased in Marlows auction then they are managed by Bosleys who are the top military auctioneers in the UK and all badges are as certain as can possbly be genuine if one is found to be suspect they will look at it and if it is a dodgy one that has béén missed they will give you a refund and secondly all silver badges normally have .925 and silver stamped at the rear of the bvadge
BLIZZARD

Hi Blizzard.
Thanks for that info, especially the markings on silver badges, it won't apply to this one, definitely plated !! As for where/how I obtained it is concerned, sadly, through ebay, from a seller in Cumbria and the best part of two years ago, I think I will just cut my losses. I appreciate everyone's input, this is a perfect example of why I joined the Forum, thanks a lot,
Dave.

I am afraid that I disagree strongly with Blizzard about both auctioneers and silver markings. I have mentioned in another thread that, for the last 20 years, too many firms of so-called 'specialist' militaria auctioneers have been chasing too few genuine items to put through their salerooms resulting, in my personal opinion, in more and more suspect items getting through the net. On silver markings, the most common mark on silver military items is not .925 but 'Sterling Silver' - just check out the rogues and con artists peddling this rubbish on eBay. Oh dear, I almost mounted my hobby-horse there - need to look out the blood pressure pills !!!!!!!!!!! Regards - and let's be careful out there !! David

[wright241]

Unfortunately I have also puchased the odd item on the basis that it was marked "silver" - and I have checked with a silversmith - they are indeed silver, however, the badge itself and the silver mark - as a badge - are fakes.
I have a 17th lancers, a KC 14th Hussars, a Scottish (with Albanich - forgotten the regiment title) one, Camerons :- all of these have a "SILVER" impression on the back. They are all well detailed badges as well...
Now I will only go for sterling OR (but they are usually much more expensive) HM silver.... until one day, someone unscrupulous decides to create very - worn, but "implied" HM impressions".
Rgds, David

[Bantam]

Hi,
The thing to remember is that when buying directly from Marlows or Bosleys their items are guaranteed and I am sure although they are very well veted some repro items will from time to time be offered for sale.It is a total different scenario when buying items from someone purporting to have bought them from those auction houses.If I was Bosleys I would be taking some action to stop the seller using them as a reference and bringing their integrity into question.
Regards
Bantam

[wright241]

Bantam,
Totally agree. I assume that all these items that one seller claims to have bought from Marlows (for example) - and therefore it must be genuine - is (or could) breaking be the Trades Descriptions Act - or am I out of date with this aspect of UK law - and now its just "buyer beware"?
Rgds, David

[Bantam]

Wright241,
Spot on David.Like you I'm not fully aware of the law in this area but I'm probably right in saying that if it wasn't a case of "Caveat emptor" Bosleys would have taken some kind of action.
Regards
Bantam

David
Bosley's have been in fact still are selling off the vast collection of the late Hugh King are you saying that Hugh's badges contained fakes also? I myself have been lucky enough to be the new owner of some of Hugh's collection and I can assure you that they are spot on and so is Stephen Bosley he would spot a fake from fifty miles off they are 100%.
BLIZZARD