anyone know what these are please?

[adjidica]

Hi..

I have found these badges with my grandfathers effects and have not a clue as to what they are.

He served with the BEF in France, escaping from Dunkirk and later with the British forces in Burma.

Any help would be great

Thanks

Adj

[Voltigeur]

If I'm not mistaken,Allied Land Forces - South East Asia Command (ALFSEAC) WW2.
Jo

[Voltigeur]

South East Asia Command (SEAC) was the body set up to be in overall charge of Allied operations in the South-East Asian Theatre during World War II.
The initial supreme commander of the theatre was General Sir Archibald Wavell, initially as head of the American-British-Dutch-Australian Command, and then as Commander-in-Chief, India. In August 1943, the Allies created the combined South East Asian Command, to take over from GHQ India strategic responsibilities and command of the separate national commands in the theatre. In October 1943, Winston Churchill appointed Admiral Lord Louis Mountbatten as Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia, a post he held until SEAC was disbanded in 1946. The American General Joseph Stilwell was the first deputy supreme Allied commander, as well as heading the US China Burma India Theater (CBI) command.
The initial land forces operational area for SEAC was India, Burma, Ceylon, Malaya, Sumatra, and, for offensive operations, Siam (Thailand) and French Indochina. On August 15, 1945 this was expanded to include the Dutch East Indies and French Indochina.

Command arrangements in SEAC were always complicated. In theory, the British 11th Army Group, under SEAC itself, was to control all ground forces. However, US and Chinese forces serving in the South East Asian theatre were effectively in a separate formation under Stilwell, the Northern Combat Area Command or NCAC. The Eleventh Army Group had the Fourteenth Army on the Burma front, and the British garrison in Ceylon under its direct command. Stilwell took direct command of NCAC and also served as Chief of Staff to Chiang Kai-Shek, who was officially the Supreme Allied Commander in China. The air forces in the region were, at first, part of either the RAF Third Tactical Air Force or the USAAF Tenth Air Force. During 1944, these were integrated, under the name Eastern Air Command. (The US Fourteenth Air Force, which was based in China and the Twentieth Air Force — strategic bomber units based in India — were never controlled by SEAC.) At sea, command was relatively simple, since the Royal Navy was providing almost all of the firepower in the area.

In October 1943, Churchill appointed Admiral Lord Mountbatten as the Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia Theatre. Mountbatten moved the HQ of SEAC to Kandy in Ceylon from India in 1944. It was not until late 1944 that the chain of command was clarified, after Stilwell was recalled to Washington. His overall role, and the CBI command was then split among three people: Lt Gen. Raymond Wheeler became Deputy Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia; Maj. Gen. Albert Wedemeyer became Chief of Staff to Chiang, and commander of US Forces, China Theater (USFCT). Lt Gen. Daniel Sultan was promoted, from deputy commander of CBI to commander of US Forces, India-Burma Theater (USFIBT) and commander of the NCAC. The 11th Army Group was redesignated Allied Land Forces South East Asia (ALFSEA), and NCAC was decisively placed under this formation. As the drive to liberate Burma began in earnest however, NCAC became more and more irrelevant, and it was dissolved in early 1945.

In February 1945 Air Marshal Keith Park was appointed Allied Air Commander of South-East Asia Command [SEAC] where he served until the end of the war.

[adjidica]

thankyou I thought it was likely to be from SEAC but saw a different emblem of a phoenix? when I searched for more information.

Is there any significance to the threads being made from metals or is that how all of these were made?

thanks again!

Adj

[Voltigeur]

The ones you show were,usually,worn by officers,other ranks wearing the "regular cloth"(if made) or printed models.
The one with the phoenix was for Supreme Allied Command South East Asia (SACSEA).

[adjidica]

thanks for solving that for me...appreciate it.

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

So why are the colours different in this version?

[achern]

Is this pair for sale?

Alf

[54Bty]

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30071391

[adjidica]

Originally Posted by achern

Is this pair for sale?

Alf

No sorry I'll be keeping these in my own collection. I have done a bit more asking around of the family back in England and an interesting story has come out. My grandfather was an officers servant in Burma after taking a wound at Dunkirk. The story that I've been told is that he swiped these badges from Mountbatten somehow or other...of course I take that with a big pinch of salt but still makes for a good war story. More likely the young Lieutenant he looked after gifted his own pair i think!

[peter monahan]

By no means my area of expertise but I would have thought that metallic threads were either postwar or perhaps even old comrades association. Are there confirmed examples with metallic thread for the officers from the war period? A genuine question, BTW, not a challenge.

[Old Smelly]

Originally Posted by Stanley_C_Jenkins

So why are the colours different in this version?

This pattern of badge was locally made with many slight variations in colour and quality
Lee

[adjidica]

Originally Posted by peter monahan

By no means my area of expertise but I would have thought that metallic threads were either postwar or perhaps even old comrades association. Are there confirmed examples with metallic thread for the officers from the war period? A genuine question, BTW, not a challenge.

Honestly I have no idea....and feel free to challenge that story...as tall stories go it is right up there

I am more intrigued by these badges as I find out more about them.

You make a good point about the thread being postwar...I was told the threads are gold and platinum ( something else I cant verify ) and if that is the case surely those metals wouldn't be wasted on a unit patch. Grandfather was sent home very shortly after the cessation of hostilities and he did "souvenir" a couple more interesting items that I know of...like many he didn't really want to talk much his time in service.

Am going to keep hunting for more information on these...I know the history of everything else in my collection , I know what they are thanks to you guys here on this forum...just need to nail it down :P

thanks again for your help!