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#31
17-09-21, 08:55 AM
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Could the Militia Battalion(s) have worn a blackened badge?
The regulars battalions may have worn a WM badge for ‘walking out’, also their NCOs or band is another consideration in addition to Militia Battalion(s) idea as I don’t believe there were any other East Yorks V.B.’s for it to be a ‘generic’ V.B. . The 5th Bn TF is a rare badge. Keith Hook told me he knows as far back as the 1950s some collectors who would paint / plate badges to alter the finish and plug gaps or make a nice display. I bet this even happened before then too. So could it be a 60-70 year old collector DIY job even? 
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#32
17-09-21, 09:11 AM
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Yeah.......could simply be that donkey's years ago a collector wanted a 5th Bn badge to display, didnt know the niceties of manufacture or finishes, thought a coat of black gloss'd do the trick.
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#33
17-09-21, 02:12 PM
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With regards to none factory finish, the VB`s and Militia did not have the budgets the regulars did, could this be an example of a `make do and mend` badge undertaken by the regiment?
__________________
Tha’ can allus tell a Yorkshireman, but tha’ can’t tell ‘im much. 
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#35
17-09-21, 06:38 PM
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"East York Volunteer Infantry 1859-1908" says 5th (Cyclst) East Yorks as a newly formed unit decided on a "rifle regiment" identity, wearing blackened regimental badges and black rifle pattern buttons.
In full dress, ORs wore rifle green with rifle green "staff pattern forage cap". A photo shows a private in "F" Coy wearing khaki SD with black buttons, shoulder titles and cap badge, though the badge isn't clear.
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#36
17-09-21, 07:29 PM
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Indeed so the bb was a post 1908 affection of a relatively small unit that did not have a second or third battalion in WW1.
I doubt VB badges were reused or painted: more likely they wore the VB ones in 1908-09 until the new EYorks badges replaced them and like many TF 'rifle' bns wore both bi and BB badges into and through WW1.
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#37
17-09-21, 07:45 PM
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Even if only worn on No. 1 dress, which I’m not entirely convinced by, that would still not explain their extreme scarcity IMO.
A forum of thousands of collectors, many serious long-term who specialise in TF, Yorkshire, Cyclists with between them hundreds of years collecting and it appears the sum total is one badge on here. I don’t wonder if like the 2nd pattern Rangers badge they had an officious QM who collected in the old badges. Julian’s research shows that in 1916 an order was placed for 4,000 5th Bn East Yorks Cyclists badges in bronzed GM finish i.e. WO parlance for BB. Given the scarcity of this badge I doubt the order was completed. The 5th (Cyclist) Bn was on home service all war so I cannot envisage them needing that many. Are there any photos of them during the war? Being on garrison duties one would expect there to be plenty of pics knocking about.
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#38
18-09-21, 07:30 AM
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The numbers just don't work. Using Junior OTC as an example, I know of units that were tiny and short-lived yet their OTC badges are found in greater numbers than the 5th Yorks. The scarcity of BB badge even in the 1940's means that cannot have been universally worn in any numbers.
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#39
18-09-21, 08:15 AM
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No date given, Pte S Witty, "F" Coy, 5th (Cyclists) Bn East Yorkshire Regiment.
It's not easy to make out the blackened cap badge, which appears to be the blackened version of the rose, wreath, star over regimental name scroll.
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#40
18-09-21, 10:31 AM
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Was he a wartime volunteer per chance?
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#41
18-09-21, 10:54 AM
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So much so perhaps both scenarios we suggest are in play? Or some additional as of yet unknown factor(s). Between 1908 and ‘14 I would assume a significant proportion of the men would likely have had No. 1 dress. Even if just 50% this would still amount to hundreds. And even with a hardline QM of the 12th Bn Rangers demanding 1 for 1 exchange to issue the new 3rd pattern badge some old 2nd still survived and do pop up. Could the BB badges have potentially been NCO or even SNCO? There would have been a darn sight fewer of these and also likely to have much less turnover amongst such individuals. KK and Gaylor often note metals worn but do not always cover that some of these variations found were due to rank. Last edited by Luke H; 18-09-21 at 10:59 AM.
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#42
18-09-21, 11:28 AM
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The original photo was owned by the East Yorkshire Regiment Museum, it will hopefully be clearer. There was a Pte S Witty in the East Yorks (don't know which battalion), later the NF. during WWI. Last edited by leigh kitchen; 18-09-21 at 11:35 AM.
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#43
18-09-21, 12:17 PM
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I knew I had this photo somewhere, just couldn't remember if it showed East York or Cheshire.
East York cap badge, black rifles buttons, blackened shoulder titles, Victorian Crown dog in a basket belt locket. The cap badge - a darkened finish? Photo dated February 1917, ink stamped "From E Perfect, Jeweller, 70, St. Anns Well Road (rest of address obscured by a paper label). "Lane" pencilled on the back, which may or may not be the name of the subject. Purchased in Peterborough in March 1989 and noted by me at the time as although the badge didn't appear to be blackened, possibly of a 5th Bn East Yorks man, though as far as I could make out the s/t numeral looked like a "6". (St. Anns Well Road - Nottingham?). Last edited by leigh kitchen; 18-09-21 at 12:48 PM.
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#45
18-09-21, 05:30 PM
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Fair enough Leigh I don’t doubt you. Just the area circled I couldn’t see it and felt it looked very off centre (to the viewers right) of the cap going by its peak.
Second pic is interesting. The badge looks lighter than the buttons but not as bright as the buckle, which I assume as a prop would perhaps polished? As Alan says it may be an all GM badge which just hasn’t been polished. I found this pic online. States he’s 6th Bn but the badge looks blacked going by the buttons. Might he have transferred?
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