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#46
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Sorry, I should have said back part, meddling with sex always has it's probems! lol
Andy |
#47
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It's always facinating (or at least top me) at just how random and unrefined the backs and sides of period dies are compared to a modern die.
They seem to have taken a lump of metal roughly the right size and used it, often forging it to shape after anealing and still red hot and maleable. There doesn't seem to be any consistent plan of workholding or clamping system that you would find with a modern dies (collars, shoes, bolster plates etc). |
#48
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pictures 2 & 3: backview of a repaired die. It has another die for an unidentified livery button as a base. Does anyone recognise the coat of arms? |
#49
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Btns
The button is a Baron's coat of arms and has silver and red hatching (Possibly Lord of Hanslope). Thats the clamping system the Neibelungen describes, for the die repair, in his post isnt it The cracks would still be visible in the end product.... but at least there is still an end product.... because of the repair. Below is an example of what looks like a die repair and continued production?
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro Last edited by GriffMJ; 01-11-13 at 05:04 PM. |
#50
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It does seem to be the Economy badge doesn't it. so yes a bonus given your interest. It does leave me wondering though if I might have been mistaken having turned my nose up in the past at RE Econ badges with poor rear definition! A great thread and one I've enjoyed learning from Ry |
#51
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Rex |
#52
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Good spot .... the father of Princess Michael of Kent..... you can see it in the marriage arms to the Prince
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#53
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Thank you very much for your efforts.
The coronet as shown on the small size livery buttons is used in British heraldy only. Wikipedia has the two shapes for a German Baron's coronet: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiherr. Unfortunately I cannot date this repaired die. The oldest livery dies in this museum collection date from the 1820s and the youngest is from the 1920/1930s. GriffM: ...Thats the clamping system the Neibelungen describe ... My picture shows a 19th century manufacturing process, i.e. no steam, no gas motor, no drive belts. The upper male die is a clamped in cast iron wedge with a blob of lead or copper on its tip, the bottom, female die is handheld by the operator's left hand. In his right hand is a tool for picking the button shell from the die. Neibelungen informs us on 20th century manufacturing, probably with two stroke friction presses. .. The cracks would still be visible in the end product .. reply: Yes they do. On smooth surfaces they may be polished. The cracks in your P.O.W. feathers' die are either from quenching or stress related. |
#54
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Btns
The shield shape on the button die is normally 1800s.. The clamp around the die ..... I meant that it was there to provide support for the broken/cracked die?
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro |
#55
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Yes, the clamp on that picture has been wrought all around two dies. One (not shown) was the one to be sent to the non UK party who ordered a batch of buttons and the die. The other one (shown) supplies a flat base needed for manufacturing. This must have been an obsolete die.
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#56
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I have seen one "clamp" (or "collar" I think it was called) that was a hopelessly optimistic piece of brass pipe with a soft-soldered line running down one edge.
Also have a photo somewhere of a Victorian fire brigade service bar that had had a heavy piece of rectangular steel laboriously cut, filed and shrunk around the cracked die..... |
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