Anyone read Nepalese or Indian....?

[Roy]

Okay Chap's,

I just added this super Chindie patch to my collection (see album). This one is really interesting in that woven into the backing is some 'scrap' paper with writing on...! Now this appears to be one of the Indian/Nepalese (?) languages which would make sense but I know less than nothing about this topic. I know it's a long shot but is there any here that can read any of the languages of that region and could shed some light on exactly what language it is? who knows it might be an indication as to the area this was made.

All the best, Roy.

[Mike Jackson]

Not really a big enough sample to confirm, but it's probably Hindi, rather than an obscure minority language. There is no reason that I can think of to imagine that it should be Nepalese (as far as I know none of the small number of Royal Nepalese Army battalions that served outside Nepal in World War 2 served in Special Force.)

[Roy]

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for your thoughts, that is certainly closer that I could get. Not much of a sample I know but hoping someone would recognize it.

So for now I'm going with Hindi..! Unless anyone else wants to weight in?

All the best, Roy.

[Flatdog]

Hi Roy,

The script looks like Burmese, look up Burmese script on Google images and you'll see what I mean. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Clay

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Flatdog

Hi Roy,

The script looks like Burmese, look up Burmese script on Google images and you'll see what I mean. Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Clay

You could well be right. Well spotted!

[Roy]

Thanks Clay,

I think you have it...looked at some of the characters (as best I can) and it certainly bears a strong resemblance to the Burmese script I have checked out on the web.

Well spotted Clay and many thanks. It doesn't get much more interesting than this one!

All the best, Roy.

[koi_hai]

Hi Roy, the writing on the scraps of paper is in Urdu script. Unfortunately there is not enough visible to make a complete word. Urdu was the lingua franca of the old Indian Army. The paper may have been inserted as a backing by a local military tailor in India.

[Roy]

Hello koi-hai,

Thank you for that, very helpful indeed. As you say the paper likely used as scrap for backing, so I'm sure the writing is of no military interest here. Never the less a really interesting piece that certainly is a talking point.

Many thanks for your input and help.

Best wishes, Roy.

[Wmr-RHB]

Hi,

For me it looks definitely as Arabic script. Now this script is used fore many languages (with adaptions). The same as our Latin script is used for many languages (with adaptions).

In this case it is more then likely that the language is Urdu (as stated above). But there are only some characters discernable.

[Roy]

Hello Henk,

Many thank for your input, very much appreciated. I must confess some of your chaps know some odd things! an intelligent bunch for sure. Urdu seems to be the consensus so i will stick with that for the time being. This is certainly turning out to be one of my more interesting Chindie patches, I wonder if there are more out there?

Best wishes, Roy.

[Flatdog]

Guys,

This is in no way Urdu script, nor is it Sanskrit or Nepalese characters. Look up Urdu script, which very similar to Arabic script, nor is it Cingalese or Thai. Don't forget there were many a tailor in Burma especially in Rangoon. Many would have capitalised on making up insignia for such a famous group, especially after the Japanese were defeated. Besides if Urdu was spoken it was not in Official circles. The official working language was the King's in any Colony and Territory. If a British officer were to go to a tailor he would be speaking english, therefore the tailor would have to speak english in order to get the insignia correct as well as take the order. This paper is from a Burmese tailor shop, probably had the badge design drawn on a scrap of printed matter and stitched over the drawing. Simple as that.

regards,

Clay

[Mike Jackson]

The sign that initiated this thread is an excellent example, but I think that this issue is becoming somewhat over-complicated and something of a linguistic tangle. Every collector of British and British-Indian cloth insignia has or has seen examples of locally made signs with scraps of newspaper or other printed material added as a bit of stiffening. Although there were many genuine ex-Chindits serving on in other formations, there is anecdotal evidence that SF/3 Indian Div/Chindit signs were readily available in India and were often worn on leave by soldiers who had never served in the force but wanted to portray themselves as heroes of the Burmese jungles. Conversely, a former Maj of 4 GR told me that, such was the reputation of 17 Indian Div after its extraction from Burma in good order having conducted a fighting withdrawal against the Japanese, to wear the Black Cat sign was regarded in late 1943-44 as being akin to having the ribbon of a gallantry award on one's shirt.
2 Inf Div P1010039.jpg2 Inf Div P1010041.jpg

[Roy]

Hi Clay,

Thanks for your contribution. I agree it is just a bit of scrap paper used as backing, I never thought it way anything else. Just thought it was a bit of fun and added a little local interest. I have many Chindit patches and this is the first I have had with such a backing. I never thought it was anything more than that but certainly thought it interesting and worth sharing.

Best wishes, Roy.

[Wmr-RHB]

I more or less stand to my opinion. Sorry, I hope you do not value me as stubborn (well, you may, because I am ).

For the following you must take into account:
0) I hope the forums software (and you) use Unicode encoded in UTF8) as the standard way of representing characters.
1) you may not have a font in your system to represent the characters I show and thus see empty squares or the like instead;
2) when you have the font, you may see characters that differ in outline from the characters on the badge because on the badge they are hand written and because, like we have different glyphs like Courier and Garamond, the Arabic script allready for ages is used to design different artistic fonts. But the general outline will be the same.
3) Arabic is written right to left. Now the text here is scanty and seems to be more like some letters mixed with some dashes without particular meaning (schoolboy exersising?) and thus the direction of writing may be meaningless.
4) Arabic characters have often up to three forms dependent if they are standing alone, are at the start of a word, in the middle of a word or at the and of a word. This is because of the connecting, handwriting nature of the script. Same like when we connect an "o" in handwriting to characters before and after with a connecting line.

When you turn the picture 90⁰ to the right it is better readable.
Then we see from the utmost right in he middle of the badge a stand alone arabic ن with is the letter "n".
Before it we see a -, which may be used for the same thing we do use it.
Before it is what seems to be a |, but it is hidden at the top and thus not complete.
Before it we see a stand alone ف but we are not sure of the number of dots that may be hidden.
On the line above we see something that ands in a ending س but again we see only part of it and there can be dots above/below.

IMHO this and the other parts where we can see more of it, are typicaly Arabic script characters. Part of it seems to be inked in as a sort of drawing. For me it can be any piece of paper used for making notes, or scribling used by the badge maker. Even in those times re-using waste paper was done

As I said in a post above, only seeing some Arabic charraters does not say very much about the language. When I type
N - F
nobody can tell if my native language is Dutch, English ot German. For that you must have the luck to see e.g. a Ü to guess it is German.
Arabic script is/was used on the subcontinent for several languages, like Urdu, Punjabi (for Moslims writing it, the SIkhs use Gurmukhi for Punjabi) and more.

Just some information to add to the all trhe contributions above, This wll not bring the ultimate solution, but IMHO it adds to the impressions one may have of the wonderfull atmosphere of the mix of cultures of the Indian subcontinent end it's surroundings in the time of WW 2 (and now).

[Roy]

Thanks Henk,

A very informative reply. When get around pulling this patch out I will have another go at photographing it...turning it and perhaps seeing if I can carefully lift some of the backing. The original pictures were taken in haste.

Very best, Roy.