Tartan Badge Backings

[Peter Brydon]

I am pretty certain that this has been covered on the Forum in the past and badge backings have been illustrated in a number of individual threads but as there are a number of recent queries I wonder if it is worth raising the matter again.

I think I am right in saying that the wearing of tartan backing by scottish regiments is a relatively modern innovation on the Tam although an illustration in "British Battle Insignia 1 1914-18" shows a member of 8th Gordon Highlanders wearing a tartan backing with a battalion number.

A good source of information is "Badge Backings and Special Embelishments " and Gaylor in later editions of "Military Badge Collecting " has a list at Appendix J of Tartan Backings. He correctly gives Forbes Tartan for the Liverpool Scottish but says it was worn with a diagonal intesection of white lines.All the examples I have seen of Liverpool Scottish Tams have the white lines of the tartan running horizontally and vertically.

Perhaps Gaylors Appendix should be regarded as a list of regimental tartans to be used for display purposed rather than a list of actual badge backings.

"The Uniforms and History of the Scottish Regiments " by Major Barnes gives details of the tartan for many of the " Scottish" Scottish regiments and some of the Commonwealth Scottish Regiments.

( Gaylor gives 42nd ( or Black Watch or Government ) tartan for the Glasgow Highlanders. )

I find this a very intersting subject and it would be interesting if members might show photos of any examples of scottish head gear they have with tartan badge backings.


P.B.

[Old Smelly]

Hi Peter
Here's a Gordons ToS, the antlers have been deliberately pruned, I also have Cameronians and R Scots, all cWW2
Lee

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Lee,

By relatively recently I meant WW2, I am attaching a picture of a more recent Liverpool Scottish tam.

Peter

[Graham Stewart]

TS BADGE.jpg TS Grave.jpg
It's certainly known that the Tyneside Scottish wore Tartan backing to their cap badges during WWI, but from when is more difficult to determine.

The attached illustration shows the cap badge of Piper Edward Roland Grieves, 22nd Bn, which is in my collection, showing the tartan backing of the 22nd BN(Campbell of Argyll) and also a photo of his grave. He DOW on the 6th July 1916 and is now buried in Etaples Military Cemetery.

A new tartan known as "sandbag" tartan was introduced for TS pipers in 1916 and I have also seen that behind surviving geuine cap badges too.

[Peter Brydon]

Graham,

What a fantastic badge, was it only pipers of the T.S. who wore the tartan backing ?

P.B.

[Old Smelly]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Thanks Lee,

By relatively recently I meant WW2, I am attaching a picture of a more recent Liverpool Scottish tam.

Peter

Yes Peter, I thought you might have meant earlier than WW2. The use of tartan as backings and as uniform flashes seems to get more prolific in WW2 when the kilts were dropped(no pun intended). I'm sure some regiments were wearings backings in WW1 and maybe even before
Lee

[fougasse1940]

There's a connection between the introduction of the Tam-o'-Shanter and tatan cloth in lieu of cap badges during WWI, later worn with badges.
See: 'The British Soldier in the 20th Century 2; Field Service Head Dress 1902 to the present day' by Mike Chappell p. 11:
"The practice of wearing tartan patches on T.O.S. bonnets began in the 9th (Scottish) Division in 1915. Battalions of the Division were ordered to wear these distinctions in the manner of "battle patches"; cap badges were not worn in the line... ...These patches almost certainly derived from the old puggaree flashes of former times and were worn with cap badges out of the line. The fashion started by the 9th Division was gradually copied and survives to this day."

Rgds,

Thomas.

[BILL DUGGAN]

I always believed (please correct me if I'm wrong) the Liverpool Scottish only adopted the blue hackle upon their affiliation with The Cameron Highlanders in the post WW2 era.

The attached picture showing the old cap badge (with the horse) correctly shows no hackle being worn.

They used to be a part-time battalion of The King's Regiment (hence the horse) but then became a part-time battalion of The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders and that's when horse badge disappeared and blue hackle and Cameron type badge was adopted, but still retaining the Forbes tartan backing

I believe the Tyneside Scottish had similar connections/affiliations to the Black Watch. However I'm not sure on that one.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Graham,

What a fantastic badge, was it only pipers of the T.S. who wore the tartan backing ?

P.B.

As far as I'm aware it was worn universally, by the TS Brigade, although there is no documentation of when it was adopted. Photo's taken in the UK post-T.O.S. adoption show no evidence of backing, so we have to assume it was sometime between arrival in France in January 1916 and certainly before Grieves's death in July the same year.

I was also shown another piece of tartan backing, which was attributed to the 29th(Res)Bn, NF(TS), which although of the same pattern as that of the 1st TS, seemed to be chocolate and white rather than black and white.

The tartans were;-
1st TS - "Northumbrian" or shepherds tartan, which is a black & white check.
2nd TS - Campbell of Loudon
3rd TS - Campbell of Argyll
4th TS - As for 2nd TS

[Graham Stewart]

TS Man GS_200.jpg

Photo of a member of an unknown battalion of the TS with a tartan cap badge backing. The dark colour of the backing would possibly imply the 'sandbag' tartan.

[Graham Stewart]

Sandbag Tartan.jpg With thanks to the Great War Forum

Not a brilliant illustration, but an example of the Sandbag tartan on a genuine TS badge

[BILL DUGGAN]

There seems to be several people that make many contributions to this forum that, judging by their 'avatars', have a Liverpool or King's Regiment interest.

I'm waiting for someone to comment on the posting I contibuted to yesterdays string on tartan badge backings

The interesting string seems to have now dried up.

I'm waiting for my statement to be confirmed or denied because I am interested that correct facts should be placed on websites like this.

I don't like making mistaken errors in my area of knowledge 'cos with a memory bank as old as mine I need to keep a check on it.

I don't wish to argue any points 'cos I haven't got a referance book on the subject but I would be grateful of a 2nd opinion.

(Old) Bill

[Peter Brydon]

Bill,
If you look carefully at the photo you put on the Forum under the Tatran Backing thread you will see the soldiers are wearing the Liverpool Scottish Cameron badge and not the 10th Kings badge.

I do have a reference somewhere as to when the blue hackle of the Camerons was introduced in the Liverpool Scottish ( interestingly they also wore it in the glengarry ) but I have not found it yet which is why I have not commented yet.

Peter

[Peter Brydon]

Attached are extracts from the Liverpool Scottish Gazette of Christmas 1937 showing the Army Order transfering the Liverpool Scottish from the Kings Liverpool Regiment to the Queens Own Cameron Highlanders.

It also states that " in future we will wear the uniform of the Cameron Highlanders...........We shall contine to wear Forbes tartan and our own ornaments "

I have also attached some photos which I got from the soldier himself showing pictures taken at annual camp from around 1937/8. In one the soldier is wearing the tam ( badge not clear ), cameron collar badges and the sporran of the old 10th Kings.

In the second photo he is also wearing Cameron collars but the sporran badge has been changed to that of the Camerons. On his head he has the glengarry with the badge of the Liverpool Scottish ( Cameron ) but no sign of a hackle.

The blue hackle was worn after the battalion became part of the Cameron Highlanders but was not introduced immediatley ( I seem to recall authority for Camerons to wear the blue hackle was given by Kings George 6th but I may be wrong )

I will contine to search for the date.

Peter

[Peter Brydon]

In the book "The Queens Own Highlanders " by Angus Fairrie it says approval was given following a visit to the 1st Camerons in the field by Kings George 6th on 5th December 1939 to the wearing of a hackle behind the badge in the balmoral bonnet.

The King himself suggested the Royal blue colour. Official authorisation was not given until 1951 for use with the balmoral bonnet and 1952 for use with the blue No1 dress bonnet.

Still does not say when the use of the blue hackle began with the Liverpool Scottish. I will continue to search.

P.B.