What would you do?

[Semloh Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Situation: A lot of badges and some medals were purchased from the veteran, who expressed that no one in the family was interested in this stuff. The purchaser checked and asked again, was he sure that no one wanted them? Again, the vet insisted the collector take the material. A sum of money was exchanged and the collector left. (Notes. 1. The vet did not, at that time have any obvious mental health issues, and though his health was not the best, he was not failing. 2. The collector paid more than a fair sum for the material that he purchased. The vet was not in financial straights. 3. No reciept was obtained at the time of the purchase.)
About three years later, the collector noted that the vet had passed away. Fast forward about another 6 months. The collector receives a phone call from a daughter of the vet, enquiring if the collector had the badges and medals that were purchased from her father. She wanted them back.
What is the appropriate response to the request?

How did the daughter know who bought the badges and medals. If her father had told her before he died, what took her so long. If her father did'nt tell her, then whats going on, sounds like she's had a better offer and thinks she can make some money.

Retlaw.

[Old Smelly]

A tricky one, but on the whole 'finders keepers!'. I had a similar experience and handed back items to the family, rather frustrating as I had asked on several occasions prior to the deal if they were sure they wanted to sell the stuff.
From the other side of the coin, my grandfathers medals went awol a long time ago(before I was born) and I constantly search for them on lists/auctions etc, but his MM resurfaced recently via a collector/dealer who phoned me out of the blue as he recognised the surname. He could have asked any amount really but he let me have it well under book price because it was going back to the family.
Back to the original topic, it depends on what her motives are really but from experience the family usually want the good bits back to sell on ebay.
Lee

[Alan O]

If they were easily replaced items then i would offer them back at cost. However if they were rare or difficult to replace then I would not even reply.

[Deejayuu]

For what it is worth the badges were bought and sold in good faith and as such the transaction is bone fide. It is not a legal issue but a moral one. The daughter now wants the collection, as i see it she has no legal right to the collection as she pressumably has already benefitted from an inheritance from here father due to the sale of the badges. A token gesture might help both the daughter and the purchaser by offering back to her at a reasonable price say 5% of the badges back? I would pressume that if a collection was bought outright then there would be several duplicates? Even if the duplicates had been sold on there must be some left from the original sale (even if a few white lies were told). This would allow the daughter to have at least part of her fathers collection and would also help the buyer to sleep easier. The daughter cannot expect the purchaser to give the collection back for free as a fare price was paid.
A very awkward situation!
Dave

[jim a]

Buying the badges medals uniforms from the veteran in person is a done deal in my opinion... if you know you've paid a fair price for them then you can sleep at night. If the daughter wants them back and you want to sell them to her then go ahead. iF YOU DON'T WANT TO SELL THEM BACK THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO AND YOU CAN STILL GO TO SLEEP AT NIGHT.

[Belfin]

Keep them.

The decision to sell was made by the person who owned the badges and earned the medals.

As Retlaw states above, it sounds like she's had a better offer and thinks she can make some money. Playing the old "family" card when she couldn't be bothered years ago is designed to pull on your heart strings and hand them back mate!

At least in your posession they can be well cared for with the respect they deserve. Who knows who could end up with them once she's stuck them on Ebay!

[NEMO]

good afternoon ,
some very good points here ,
sometimes the death of a family member who has sold their medals badges etc can bring many emotions to the the surface with the surviving loved ones , often , the worse kind such as guilt for not doing enough in the latter years

The medals suddenly become more valuable from a personal sense and the daughter would wish to frame the items of her ` war hero ` father for future generations ,donate to a museum or as a keepsake to remember here brave fathers war service /

all very good honest reasons.

The other point is surviving relatives feel cheated out of their inheritance and think the items sold off are worth thousands of pounds .

Many family members can not understand the concept of

" this is a military medal for valour the medal you wish to sell is a 1939 45 star "


from a personal point of view having done many houses calls in reply to adverts ive placed in magazines having made very fair offers for medal groups only to be told

" but this is my dead fathers Burma star ,he went through hell for this "

The daughter may well think she has lost out on a fortune or want them back for an honest genuine reason .

Only the buyer has the answer , as long as he is sure in his own mind he acted with honesty and the seller new what was taking place and was not forced to sell due to lack of money i do not think he has any obligation to return them.

The issue here as in many cases may well be the seller never told any one he had sold the lot , and lets be honest here ,many veterans placed no value on these boxes of trinkets some never even mounted them and as we have all seen kept them boxed till the day they died .
Even though they were his property and won buy him surviving members see these medals as a family heirloom.

I would strongly urge any one who plans to buy from a private source that you have a witness from the sellers side present for any transaction and keep a record of all details times price etc including a signature from the seller , this may seem servere but if the surviving family members want to go down a certain path by contacting the police with the story off

" my grandpa was infirm and wheelchair bound when you swindled him ( us ) out of thousands ,"
any details you keep might save the day.
regards ,Nemo

[69th]

I think as people get older there perceptions change. As a kid my fathers medals (1939-45, N/Africa with 8th Army clasp and Italy stars, Defence and War medals) were something to play with, then as you got older the deeds that went into getting these medals go into the back of your mind, untill the day you really realise. I would not part with my dads medals, cap badges, spurs, for ANY amount, but I was lucky they had stayed in the family. Some people are not so lucky, and they can take some time to track down. Me I would find replacements, tell them what it would cost me to replace the items, and where the replacements came from. Then I would offer them back to them at said cost.

[Sonofacqms]

Having read the threads on this as well as putting my own opinions in a previous thread, I have a question to ask Bill A. Were the medals and badges awarded to and worn by the veteran. For this you would need his service history. Alternatively were they badges and medals that he had collected during his service?

If all or some of the badges and medals were worn by the veteran, then yes, I can understand the Daughter wanting them, when sorting deceased's papers and effects out, she may have come across photos, paperwork and the like which would have started the interest. Having taken a less jaundiced view of people than in my previous thread, I still think that the current owner should not be out of pocket if he decides to sell them back.

[Bill A]

Hi Sonof...
The lot was a combination of both the vet's own service and his accumulation of souvenirs. And, these were the standard issue of WW2 medals, un-named. (IIRC, three stars (39-45, Italy, F&G) and the two service medals, CVSM and 39-45 WM). Easily obtainable, and unattributable.
The badges were an interesting situation. There was one quite scarce badge, a couple of harder to find ones and quite a pile of relatively common WW2 era badges. The scarce badge did not fit the vet's service record, so he must have acquired it as a souvenir or as part of a collection. The vets service, as far as was reconstructed included one of the harder to find badges, and then a couple of common ones.
In the situation described, the daughter was insisting on the entire lot being returned. In her mind, all of the material "was dad's and therefore was part of his career".

[Sonofacqms]

This is indeed a tricky one Bill, while the medals are easily replaced, that scarce badge is not one that you would want to part with, probably the reason the badges were bought in the first place.

Dare I say replace the original scarce badge with a restrike and explain what you have done, then sell the items back if both parties agree. It would be to my mind the best of a bad deal. At least you would have that rare badge still for your collection.

I am not in favour of restrikes at all, but they do have a place for re-enactors, and in a situation like this can be of help.