british epaulette ?? help

[Just]

Hello
do you know this shoulder board ?
thanks for answers
cordially
Didier

The cipher and crown look like that of the 21st (Empress of Indian) Lancers formerly Light Dragoons.
However, it could also be an epaulette from the Viceroy or Indian Regency.
But that pip is something new in my years of collecting experiance! I could swear it looks German but I may be totally wrong.
Rgds,
button_buru
---------------
Buttons aren't just a hobby!

[54Bty]

The star or pip is indeed German. What does the underside look like.

Marc

[Wmr-RHB]

My guessing leads to it being German (as others allready decided are ver likely). And then a Regiment that was named after queen Victoria (because ofthe cypher).

A quick (but by no mean thouroghly) research revealed the existance of: 1. Garde-Dragoner Regiment "Königin Victoria von Großbritannien".
HTH to start further investigation.
.

[Wmr-RHB]

I found more information:

Schulterklappe: rot bekrönter Namenszug "VIR" der Königin Victoria von Grossbritannien und Irland.

Translation: Shoulderstrap: red crowned cypher "VIR" queen Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland.

Naming:

21.2.1815: Garde-Dragoner Regiment
4.7.1860: 1. Garde-Dragoner Regiment Königin von England
17.12.1889: 1. Garde-Dragoner Regiment Königin von Grossbritannien und Irland
23.1.1901: Garde-Dragoner-Regiment Königin Viktoria von Großbritannien und Irland Nr. 1

And their colours: http://www.flaggen-versand24.de/hist...-regiment.html

And the rank is then second-lieutenant.

[Just]

Hello Henk
thank you
not easy to find
cordially
Didier

Oh how silly of me. It skipped me that we're dealing with a pre-WWI probablity. The royal houses of Great Britain, Hanover, Russia, etc. were all related. It was common to have one of the related monarchs as Colonel-in-Chief of a particular regeiment in another country and enjoy their partonage. Great work lads.
Didier, please keep us informed of the end results.
Rgds,
button_guru
-------------------
Buttons aren't just a hobby!

[Peter Brydon]

Bosleys had a cloth shoulder board ( Lot 642 Postal Sale of 20/10/10 ) it was red with embroidered in yellow Kings Crown over VRI cypher and was described as:
"Prussian 1st Guard Dragoon Regiment.......sub title Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Scotlands Dragoons"

P.B.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

"Prussian 1st Guard Dragoon Regiment.......sub title Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Scotlands Dragoons"

When reading the websites where I found the information above, I also got the impression that the writer thought that the I in VIR was for Ireland. Also not understanding that in fact it is not VIR, but VRI.

BTW it were not only the related monarchs that became honorary colonels (Regimentschef), but also other, most european, ones.

E.g. in this 1914 list for the Austrian-Hungarian infantry, I find:
Alexander I, Kaiser von Rußland
Carl I, König von Rumänien
Gustav V, König von Schweden
Albert I, König von Belgiën
Victor Emanuel III, König von Italien
Wilhelm I Deutscher Kaiser u. König von Preußen (mark that at that time Wilhelm II was reigning).
Alfons XIII,König von Spanien
Nicolaus I, König von Montenegro
Ludwig III, König von Bayern
And then there are also some of the crown princes, haed of lesser states within Germany (including the Duke of Cumberland as: Ernst August Herzog von Cumberland, Herzog zu Braunschweig u. Lüneburg)

Cavalry regiments add to this, sometimes with the same names, but we here see amongst them
Wilhelm II. Deutscher Kaiser u. König von Preußen
Artur Herzog von Connaught und Strathearn
Ferdinand I, König der Bulgaren
two more Russian emperors
Etc.

In the German army it was not much different.
Neither was it in the British army. Only it did not show in their names. But some regiments did change their badges in 1915 because of such bonds "with the enemy" as you all know.

[ebro]

I would think the translation, Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland would be correct as Scotland was already included in the Great Britain.
Eddie

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by ebro

I would think the translation, Queen Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland would be correct as Scotland was already included in the Great Britain.
Eddie

It is not the German text I quoted above, nor it's translation into English, but the not quoted text around it on the German website that brought me to thinking the writer there thinks the I in VRI stands for Ireland instead of Imperatrix. I would not have mentioned it when I hadn't seen the translation found by @8thfoot.

[fougasse1940]

Is there an explanation for the combination VRI cypher and kings crown?

Rgds,

Thomas.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Is there an explanation for the combination VRI cypher and kings crown?

Rgds,

Thomas.

That is a good question IMHO. I can only speculate that, as the name was still caried after queen Victoria's death (not unusual as we see Wilhelm I also still used in 1914), the Germans' mixed the cypher with the then used crown (which would narrow the date of the apaulette). But then the crown would have changed in about 1901 and why would they have done that? On request of Edward VII? Riddles.

Also the crown is not of a German type as far as I know. The Germans, without doubt, would have consulted the British Government/Crown for the correct cypher and crown.