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  #16  
Old 26-10-17, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
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The principal of the trade badges in question was that the employments with the most demanding skills were A, and so forth down to D. From memory, it was not usual to progress up through the letters whilst doing one trade: a riveter's assistant [I made that up] would need to learn a new trade to get to a higher letter and more trade pay.
Another aspect is that these badges were used when there was not a recognised/ recognisable traditional emblem.
Lastly, as signalling was mentioned, not only did it have its unique badge, but [somewhat oddly] it was classified with the skill-at-arms badges and so worn on the left lower sleeve. There is always a "however".
However, a signalling instructor wore the flags above rank on right hand side.
Grumpy,

You raise a point that I had often wondered about. Thinking about full dress prior to WW1 when Colour Sergeants wore their crossed flags and crown badge above their chevrons, was it possible for a Col. Sgt. to be a Signalling Instructor and if so did they wear their crossed flags elsewhere, ie lower right arm?

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  #17  
Old 26-10-17, 09:31 PM
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

If it helps any I got my wrists mixed up but RCT / RLC, REME and RMP definitely swapped from left to right wrist then above the rank as they went from class 2 to 1 to RSI. I've also heard of people getting a distinction on the RSI course putting their flags actually on their stripes rather than above them but I don't think that was official.

SSgt instructors wore them between the stripes and the crown while warrant officers wore them above the crown on their wrists. I've even seen cloth wrist straps being made big so they could wear both in shirt sleeve order.

That would have been between the mid 80's and 2000.

I'm sure you will know that already but your question also makes me wonder when the crossed flags badge was introduced?

Michael
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  #18  
Old 26-10-17, 10:09 PM
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Introduced in 1887 as a prize badge for telegraphists RE.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #19  
Old 27-10-17, 07:39 AM
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The 'Pay Warrant' did have lists of the various trades corresponding to the lettered badges.

Marc
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  #20  
Old 27-10-17, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Grumpy,

You raise a point that I had often wondered about. Thinking about full dress prior to WW1 when Colour Sergeants wore their crossed flags and crown badge above their chevrons, was it possible for a Col. Sgt. to be a Signalling Instructor and if so did they wear their crossed flags elsewhere, ie lower right arm?

regards
Yes, in the rare event that someone as senior as a colour sergeant was the instructor, he was to wear the crossed flags on the left arm. From memory [I will check and come back if wrong] this was upper left, because in tunic order there would be no rank badge there.
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  #21  
Old 27-10-17, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
Yes, in the rare event that someone as senior as a colour sergeant was the instructor, he was to wear the crossed flags on the left arm. From memory [I will check and come back if wrong] this was upper left, because in tunic order there would be no rank badge there.
Thankyou
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  #22  
Old 27-10-17, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
Yes, in the rare event that someone as senior as a colour sergeant was the instructor, he was to wear the crossed flags on the left arm. From memory [I will check and come back if wrong] this was upper left, because in tunic order there would be no rank badge there.
That’s an interesting one, I don’t think I’ve seen a colour sergeant wear any thing but lower sleeve badges in full dress, usually to do with musketry but sometimes signals flags. Undress is different of course because no bullion rank flags were worn. As signals sergeant instructor was an infantry battalion ‘appointment’, I don’t think that any of the colour sergeants would generally wear a badge that might cause confusion, above their stripes.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 27-10-17 at 11:30 PM.
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  #23  
Old 27-10-17, 08:06 PM
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ACI 164/1950
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  #24  
Old 27-10-17, 08:09 PM
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Again,

Apologies for the sideways look, phone photos.
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  #25  
Old 27-10-17, 08:11 PM
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Last one.
Keith
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  #26  
Old 29-10-17, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Purcell View Post
That’s an interesting one, I don’t think I’ve seen a colour sergeant wear any thing but lower sleeve badges in full dress, usually to do with musketry but sometimes signals flags. Undress is different of course because no bullion rank flags were worn. As signals sergeant instructor was an infantry battalion ‘appointment’, I don’t think that any of the colour sergeants would generally wear a badge that might cause confusion, above their stripes.
I have at last had leisure to look at Clothing Regs.
CR 1894 was badly drafted by somebody [or a committee] with little understanding or insight. Remember this is pre-SD, and when white drill and khakee [sic] drill was a bit under-regulated regarding badges.
"The chevrons and badges of rank for all arms of service will be worn on the right arm only***. All ....... [list of a few irrelevant SNCO/WO exceptions] chevrons and badges will be worn above the elbow.
At foot of page the asterisk *** is "A signaller, if a colour-serjeant, will wear the badge on the left arm".

I suppose we can assume that this badge is crossed signal flags, but is this upper left arm or lower? And does it matter if he is an assistant instructor?

Fast forward to CR 1914 where a 1912 Army Order is quoted.
CR gets SD etc out of the way [ranking both arms etc] and then: "In the case of other garments [eg tunic and frock, scarlet] chevrons and ranking and appointment badges will be worn on the right arm only*** and above the elbow" [with the obvious senior exceptions].
At foot of page the asterisk *** a signaller, if a colour-serjeant, will wear the signaller's badge on the left arm above the elbow. NCOs and men employed as signallers but without the assistant instructor's certificate will wear the badge on the left arm below the elbow"". Sidebar AO 275/1912.

The inference is that the C-Sjt is indeed an assistant instructor.

Having said all that, I have never ever seen a colour-serjeant so badged. Angels dancing on pinheads cannot compete.
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  #27  
Old 29-10-17, 07:03 PM
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Last one.
Keith
Thank you Keith.

Marc
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  #28  
Old 30-10-17, 09:55 AM
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The Trade Group letter badges were introduced by Army Council Instruction 1236 date 16th September 1944.

The attached list shows which trades were entitled to which badges at that date and compliments Keith's 1950 listing.

Jon
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  #29  
Old 31-10-17, 05:45 PM
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Was anybody interested in #26? It took a fair bit of research.

If not, I can take a hint!
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  #30  
Old 31-10-17, 06:02 PM
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Sorry, yes, I was. Miss the old quick option of the thankyou button
Thank you.

regards
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