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  #1  
Old 24-01-09, 10:52 AM
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'Ticker' Riley 'Ticker' Riley is offline
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Default Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry Cap Badge - genuine or not?

I wonder if anyone can help with authenticating, or otherwise, this Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry badge for me. According to the Makers Marks’ page on the Forum, it seems to bear the infamous 15mm J.R.GAUNT.LONDON stamp that is apparently associated with 1970s restrikes:


As I am not a badge collector as such I am rather at the mercy of my own ignorance I’m afraid, and so desperately need the expert opinion of Forum members before I decide to keep or return the badge to the seller. I have already informed him that this may well be a restrike, but am unable to say for certain myself so would really appreciate any advice members could give. There does seem to be some wear on the badge that makes it look more genuine, at least to my untrained eye, and the seller believes it to be an original as he understood the writing on fake Gaunt badges to be larger than in this example:


Any help or comments would be gratefully received – thank you.

Regards

Martin
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  #2  
Old 24-01-09, 03:05 PM
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You are spot on Martin. Gaunt never used this mark. Search posts, +Gaunt +full +stop . You will find it on this shape of slider. Also the impression to the reverse could be more clear-the two 'L's. Look for sharp stampings, perhaps narrow sliders, nice to get a crimp line near the slider bend. You should be able to get one for a fiver or near. You will not be able to be sure on WWI period. Cheers, Paul.
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  #3  
Old 24-01-09, 03:50 PM
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Not just on 1970s fakes - still in use today I am afraid.
Alan
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  #4  
Old 24-01-09, 11:26 PM
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Have a look a JP's WWI badge, very clear die strike, more so then the others shown. http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...light=cornwall
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  #5  
Old 25-01-09, 01:47 AM
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John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
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If it is a genuine badge you want , (I understand that the word "genuine" means not fake or counterfeit ) then the badge you have would not have been made (and thus not worn) by the regiment when it was in existance.

Thus send it back.

John
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  #6  
Old 25-01-09, 01:46 PM
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Many thanks for all the comments. I have now agreed with the seller to return the badge for a full refund. Nevertheless I thought members might be interested to know that the above badge is actually sliver plated, rather than white metal as the seller thought. I must admit I was a little suspect because of the brassy colour of the back of the badge before it arrived, and once it came it was clear that the front of the badge was also more silver in colour than a standard white metal one.

Interestingly I note that in Military Insignia of Cornwall, by D. Endean Ivall and Charles Thomas, we do have the following entries in reference to variations of the regimental cap badge:

6. Silver, hallmarked from 1902 onwards, usually Jennens or Gaunt, for officers’ dark green forage and field-service caps.
7. Silver-plate (marked ‘P’), as for no. 6.

Whilst this badge is defiantly silver plated, which has been confirmed by visits to two local jewellers and which would also I believe account for the brassy base metal, it does not carry any obvious ‘P’ mark. If it is a 1970s restrike, as apparently evidenced by the use of the 15mm J.R.GAUNT.LONDON mark, presumably it was attempting to be the silver-plated type mentioned in Military Insignia of Cornwall. Unfortunately Ivall and Thomas do not actually give a date range for the use of the silver-plated, or indeed silver, version of the badge. Anyway, thanks again to everyone for their contributions.

Regards

Martin

Last edited by 'Ticker' Riley; 26-01-09 at 09:59 PM.
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  #7  
Old 26-01-09, 09:47 AM
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Hi Martin,
the badge displayed in my gallery is a cast silver officers badge hallmarked F&S B'ham 1910. It's a very heavy badge with two loops to reverse. I dont think it's much use for identifying a ordinary ranks badge though due to it's method of construction. I've always believed it to be a privately purchased item.
Mark
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  #8  
Old 26-01-09, 07:10 PM
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Hello Martin, Sounds very odd. For future use, to test for silver/silver plate, run badge edge on white paper and it will leave a mark like a pencil. ( Tip from Jibba Jabba.)
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  #9  
Old 26-01-09, 09:41 PM
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Hi Mark, thanks for getting back to me about the Silver D.C.L.I. Officers’ badge in your collection – I just thought it might be good to post a picture of it to this thread as a comparison, so folk could see what a genuine D.C.L.I. badge should look like (even though it isn’t an Ordinary Ranks’ badge), and also to show the similarity in the design with the one above.

As for this silver plate Gaunt restrike – I don’t think it’s that odd Paul, because when you think about it if you’re going to go to all the trouble of restriking old badges surely it is best to go for the ones that are a bit rarer. This might mean a scarce type of badge, such as a 4th/5th Territorial Leicestershire Regiment all-brass economy badge, or a silver plated D.C.L.I. Officers’ one!

Anyway, thanks to both of you for the postings. It would be really good if someone could put up an Ordinary Ranks’ D.C.L.I. badge that they believe is from the Great War too, just so I know what I’m looking for.

Regards

Martin
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  #10  
Old 26-01-09, 10:58 PM
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Viletone Viletone is offline
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99% of OR's DoCLI badges if posted would look identical (at least the fronts would) to your one which despite what your jewellers state looks like nickel to me. It's one of if not the most common infantry badge around.

Last edited by Viletone; 26-01-09 at 11:33 PM.
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  #11  
Old 26-01-09, 11:23 PM
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Not an officers, or SNCO's badge collector but I think you would find the whole badge and fittings plated. Why would someone bother to make a silver plate badge with an other ranks type slider fitting? Sorry, no point that I can see. Fake badges are made to make money. We will have to differ on this Martin. To my mind it a standard other ranks restrike. Cheers, Paul.

Last edited by wardog; 26-01-09 at 11:56 PM.
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  #12  
Old 27-01-09, 09:53 AM
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Many thanks for the latest contributions gentlemen. You are probably quite right about the badge being an Ordinary Ranks’ one Paul – as a newbie to this badge collecting lark I was merely working off what it said in Military Insignia of Cornwall, and I’ll be honest I never thought about the fixings; so thank you for correcting me on this.

The badge may also well be nickel rather than sliver plated as you say Viletone, but again I don’t personally have the experience to tell. Would a nickel badge have this brassy colouring on the back, as this one does? The photo I put up doesn’t really show this well enough, but there really was a brassy colour to the back and there were even signs of it coming through the silver on the front. All I can say is it certainly wasn’t the same as the normal white-metal ones I’ve seen.

Anyway, thanks again for all the comments – I’m definitely learning, albeit it slowly!!

Regards

Martin
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  #13  
Old 27-01-09, 07:57 PM
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I don’t know if this will help, but here are two enlargements of part of the horn on the Gaunt D.C.L.I. badge:


These show the brassy colour on the back a bit better than the first pictures I put up, as well as that part where the colour seems to be coming through on the front. I don’t know if anyone will be able to tell me if this means that the badge is nickel as Viletone suggests (or maybe nickel plated), rather than being silver plated as I first thought? Any help gratefully received.

Regards

Martin
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  #14  
Old 18-02-09, 08:03 PM
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I thought I wound round this thread off by saying that following everone’s advice I did return this Gaunt D.C.L.I. badge to the seller, who in turn gave me a full refund. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt that he genuinely thought the badge in question was an authentic First World War one, but also seemed quite prepared to accept it was a restrike of some description.

As I said above, I think Viletone was probably right when he said it looked more like a nickel badge than sliver plated, as I had been led to believe after visiting some local jewellers. Though given the way the badge seemed to have some wear on the front and a brassy colour on the back, I personally think there was a chance it could have been nickel plated. Why this should be so I cannot say, and as I have returned the badge I am unable to now ask anyone’s advice further on this.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank everybody once again for all their valuable help in this, and also to say that I have now begun new series of postings here for a Lambourne D.C.L.I. badge that I have recently bought, and which appears to be much better prospect than the Gaunt one of being a genuine Great War period badge.

Best regards

Martin
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