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  #1  
Old 25-07-08, 11:28 PM
sw63 sw63 is offline
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Default Guards shoulder titles WWI

Hi,

Can someone describe the shoulder titles worn by privates in the Irish Guards and the Machine Gun Guards please?

I have seen a photo of two Irish Guards with brass "I G" on epaulets AND cloth "Irish Guards" patches on sleeves. Couldn't tell if they had brass stars as well. What was normally worn?
Thanks

Simon
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  #2  
Old 26-07-08, 12:54 AM
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Hi,
if it's any help...... Irish Guards Shoulder strap brass 'stars' do exist & were worn.
Period used.......not sure when actually worn here.
Cheers !
Steve
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  #3  
Old 26-07-08, 04:10 AM
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Simon

with respect to the Irish Guards.

At the outbrake of WW1 all the existing foot guards Rgts (including IG) wore cloth shoulder titles on service dress. This practice ceased after the war with the exception of the Grenadier Guards who continued wearing cloth shoulder titles

By 1936 the 5 regiments were wearing metal titles, in the case of the IG this was tHe miniature star of St Patrick with initials IG on service dress tunics and khaki drill jackets but nothing on the atholl grey greatcoat. The star only was worn on full dress. I am not sure when this was replaced by the embroidered versions in full dress.

The metal shoulder title was replaced by all of the foot guards regiments with cloth titles by 1939

From the introduction of # 2 dress in 1956 until 1990 the metal shoulder titles again replaced the cloth titles, in Brass/gm initially and A/A from the 1960's untill they were again replaced by cloth titles in 1990 as a result of damage caused by the SA-80 in the shoulder arms position.


What I am not certain of is the period between 1900 - 1914 , it appears as if the metal star with IG was worn for at least some of this period but I am not certain.

I am afraid I have no interest in, nor knowledge of the GMGR, Westlake claims they wore metal titles. The great war forum may be a help to you.

John

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 26-07-08 at 04:12 AM. Reason: spelling corrections
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  #4  
Old 26-07-08, 04:57 AM
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Hello Simon,

I have the "IG" brass letters on the first age of my album. I still need to find a brass star.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...php?albumid=18

Michael
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  #5  
Old 26-07-08, 05:02 AM
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hello

i dont have the "I-G" but i have the miniature star of St Patrick

if somebody can give me the I.G
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  #6  
Old 26-07-08, 09:01 AM
David Douglas
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Default Guards etc.

I couldn't help but notice that, recently on eBay, there have been at least 3 examples of the Irish Guards star - but listed in every case as a collar badge. Getting the right combination of components for Guards shoulder titles is often a difficult task as items become separated and even the colour of brass changes, making exact matching difficult. Good hunting. David
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  #7  
Old 29-07-08, 08:34 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys.

Can anyone describe the Machine Gun Guards shoulder titles?

Cheers,

Simon
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  #8  
Old 29-07-08, 08:58 PM
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Simon I always assumed it was khaki cloth backing with red lettering worn on the shoulders like other period guards cloth shoulder titles.

Ive never actually owned a period portrait postcard of those titles being worn. The nearest example I had was 1st Guards Brigade Machine Gun Company, they wore MGC collars and all the badges you would expect from the associated guards regiment.
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  #9  
Old 04-01-09, 12:41 AM
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I have managed a little research on this (highly confusing) subject recently and need to modify the input I gave in post 3

The IG went to war with the metal GM star and initials "I G" for a shoulder title. These were replaced in about 1917 with the cloth title "Irish Guards"

By at least 12 October 1917 (and possibly as early as 31 July 1917) the cloth title had been adopted as evidenced by contempory photographs of troops at the first battle of Passchedaele (and earlier the battle of Pilckem Ridge.) Published sources give the reason for the change as the metal titles were too conspicious (I am not convinced of this but it may be correct). Photos dated through 1916 show the metal shoulder titles in use.

Pipers photographed in 1917 (with no exact date) show the metal title in wear.

The machine gun guards wore a cloth title white on red, the title was on "two levels" (but single piece) with the wording "Machine Gun" on the upper level and the word "Guards" on the lower level. Uper level curved lower straight, straight edges. Westlake indicateds metal titles were worn but I have not seen evidence of them (but I have not looked very hard).

PM me if you want a scan of the Machine Gun Guards Title.

John

main sources are;
Chappell. Mike, 1995, The Guards Divisions 1914-45. Osprey Elite Series no. 61, London, Osprey Military Books.

Fosten, Bryan & Carman, William Y. , 1995 Uniforms of the Foot Guards from 1661 to the present day. Romford, Essex. The Pompadour Gallery.

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 04-01-09 at 01:21 AM. Reason: added references
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  #10  
Old 04-01-09, 10:46 AM
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Simon, if you are anywhere near Kew, the answers you seek are almost certainly in the RACD volume that covers the 1st WW.
Pre 1914 Guards titles, John, are bound to be in the earlier volumes - hope you can make it over this year !
Julian
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