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#121
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The photos in my post #112 show the size of the badge, which often the fakers get wrong.
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#122
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You said “I’m tapping out of this thread” in post #106. Clearly you’re not applying this law of engagement!
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#123
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So you use the photos of a fake title to show the size of a genuine title even though you use a fake as an example? That's almost funny.
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#124
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I agree, that die struck badges (using a negative and a positive die) will have a “reverse imprint of the front detail”, but I do not know of any original LRDG that have such a reverse stamping. However, I do know that you can die-strike a badge just using a negative die. This style of striking would also leave a nice flat or slightly impressed reverse as you may get with a die-cast badge. I think the biggest difference that should be pointed out between a die-struck badge and a die-cast badge, is one is made from hot molten metal, and the other is made from flat rolled sheet metal that will have no impurities such as air bubbles that is sometimes encountered with cast badges. The following New Zealand manufactured badge was made from a negative and positive die. As can be seen it is maker marked MKW on the reverse of the bottom scroll. NZMP Die stamped Mayer Obverse.jpgNZMP Die stamped Mayer reverse.jpgNZMP Die stamped MKW marked.jpg The same NZMP negative die was later used (1970s I think) to make commemorative badge sets, the positive die had been long before sold as scrap value, so only the negative die was used in the striking. The following is a struck badge, not die cast. NZMP Die stamped reproduction.jpg Just out of interest, in the mid-1960’s, Mayer and Kean engravers, die-sinkers, medallists, changed their name to Mayer and Toye Limited when British company TKS took a half share. It is my understanding, the Mayer family later re-purchased the half share back, although the company name stayed the same, and has been fully owned by the Mayer family since that time. So yesterday, being local, I took my LRDG badge down to the badge makers whose family has been stamping badges for over 100 years here in Wellington, and asked the expert, what do you think "Die-stamped or Die-cast?" The answer at first was "definitely die stamped," and went on to say the lugs are not integral as you would expect with a cast badge, but after looking at it for a few minutes, he pointed out the blob under the "G", he did say he could not rule out it being die cast. So I guess it comes down to matching up my badge to a known die-cast LRDG badge and see if it stacks up to being the same, or does it have more in common with a die-struck badge. |
#125
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#126
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#127
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My belief is if we all pool our information, we will start seeing some patterns emerge. Quote:
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If we all add to the information pile we might just get to the bottom of the LRDG badge variation enigma. |
#128
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Non slip on suggests to me that it is an officers issue, and the most obvious question is why is it still not sewn to the shoulder board? |
#129
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I would be most interested to see a picture showing the back of this badge.
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#130
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Hopefully Alan doesn’t mind me using a pic of his badge. Look at the edge of his Wandsworth badge... it has a depressed edge/rim from the reverse stamp. Even on the scroll and central circular disc where there is no/almost non reverse detail. This is very, very clearly a stamp. Those LRDG badges have flat edges to the badges because they are die CAST. There is no rim/raised edge as they have NOT been stamped. The hollow behind the scorpion is from the die casting. This is similar to the 13th/18th Hussars badge I showed in post #91 behind the diagonal scroll. Here it is next to Steve Conway’s die cast badges. Hopefully he doesn’t mind me using them to demonstrate. (Please let me know if you do Steve and I’ll remove). If you cannot see the differences then there’s not a lot more I can do. Last edited by Luke H; 08-02-20 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Added LRDG backs for comparison |
#131
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While at the badge makers on Friday, who only do die stamping, no casting at all, I made sure that I had all my facts right.
You can stamp a brass sheet into a negative die that will leave a perfectly flat back or slightly indented, this is a fact. I don't see any point to your trying to match my or Steve's badge to Alan's badge. However, there is a Wellington badge meet this afternoon, and I have asked Steve Conway to bring his badge to compare with mine. Lastly, I will however also match my badge to a a couple of "known/Genuine" die-cast LRDG badges, to see how it stacks up, if they are the same we should see some obvious similarities in their construction, or we will see some obvious differences. Luke I look forward to you posting some images of your own collection of of genuine LRDG badges for us to see where you draw your comparisons from. |
#132
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#133
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#134
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Hi Brent, this is the Association badge in the LRDG RHODESIA. I will ask for a photo of the back.
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#135
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The following WW1 NZ Pioneer badges are all British made and are all die struck, you could say there are some design similarities to the die struck LRDG badges. NZ Pioneer Battalion obverse.jpgNZ Pioneer Battalion reverse.jpg NZ Pioneer Battalion obverse 2.jpgNZ Pioneer Battalion reverse 2.jpg This one is worth showing as it shows multiple strikes were used. s-l1600 (9)m.jpg Last edited by atillathenunns; 10-02-20 at 08:28 AM. |
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