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  #1  
Old 06-05-17, 03:54 PM
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Default 22ème St John's Battalion C.E.F

Hi there,

I have a question for you all. For the 22nd Bttn, CEF cap badge: in particular the smaller E-22-A version - is there any difference between a CEF one, and a later, WW2 and beyond examples?

i.e., can they be positively identified to a time period, or like say, British Royal Artillery, was there no real way to accurately date a badges over an extended period? (at least till the crown change in the 1950's)

Any help would be much appreciated

Cheers, Tim
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  #2  
Old 06-05-17, 04:57 PM
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Hello Tim,
There are a few clues that can be used to date the Van Doo's badge. (I am not sure about your title for the thread, St John's ?)
The CEF badges did not feature the battalion number, and subsequent research suggests the inclusion of the E22-A is an error in Babin. There are other detailed differences in the shape of the beaver that have been used to document the time frame. There is a lengthy entry in Brooker's new badge references.
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  #3  
Old 06-05-17, 05:34 PM
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That's great, thanks Bill. The "St John's" was how the Bttn is described in Rosen and Martin's book. I take it that's also wrong?

Thanks for your help

Cheers, Tim
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Old 06-05-17, 06:13 PM
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Hi Tim, You are welcome.
I didn't realize they used that term. It is not correct. The 26th Bn was from New Brunswick, with Saint John being their primary city. St John's (note apostrophe) is the Newfoundland city, and at the time of the First WW, Newfoundland was not a province of Canada.
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Last edited by Bill A; 06-05-17 at 07:55 PM. Reason: corrected name
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Old 06-05-17, 06:33 PM
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Just a quick note, Bill et al. the city in New Brunswick is Saint John (first part always spelled out in full, second part not possessive).
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Old 06-05-17, 07:55 PM
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Thanks Ian. Not being a Maritimer... I beg indulgence...
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Old 06-05-17, 08:36 PM
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Super, thanks Bill and Ian

Appreciate you both clarifying things.

Cheers, Tim
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Old 07-05-17, 03:03 PM
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Hi

It is the anglo/francophone-ization of a geographical name based on who was in charge of the area at the time.

I have read military accounts from pre and post WW1 referring to that what is now Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec as Saint or St John or Johns due to the French then ultimately British Garrison there since 1666. Only really after WW2 did it most often be referred to as Saint Jean or Saint-Jean-sur......etc.

I believe the WW1 22nd Battalion was raised in Fort Saint John (Fort Saint Jean).

regards
Darrell
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Old 07-05-17, 04:13 PM
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The 22é Batallion was never identified as a local battalion eg as in 147th Grey Bn or 117th Eastern Townships. It was a provincial battalion, eg all of Quebec Bn. The mobilization HQ was in St John/ St Jean. The reference authors (Rosen and Martin) have included the mobilization HQ as part of the 22é Bn designation which is incorrect. The 22é was never the St Jean Battalion.
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  #10  
Old 07-05-17, 05:12 PM
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Hi Bill

Yup.


Hi Tim

A later pic but of a number labelled the same. "PQ" is Province de Quebec. This is 1st Canadian Motorcycle Regiment circa 1940.

regards
Darrell
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File Type: jpg St Johns PQ.jpg (91.7 KB, 30 views)
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Old 07-05-17, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell View Post
Hi

It is the anglo/francophone-ization of a geographical name based on who was in charge of the area at the time.

I have read military accounts from pre and post WW1 referring to that what is now Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec as Saint or St John or Johns due to the French then ultimately British Garrison there since 1666. Only really after WW2 did it most often be referred to as Saint Jean or Saint-Jean-sur......etc.

I believe the WW1 22nd Battalion was raised in Fort Saint John (Fort Saint Jean).

regards
Darrell

NOT 1666 but,1866.

Jo
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  #12  
Old 08-05-17, 11:54 AM
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Hi Jo

I guess it depends on which fort you are speaking of.

http://www.museedufortsaintjean.ca/E...s/francais.htm

regards
Darrell
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Old 08-05-17, 11:57 AM
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....agreed....

Jo
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“There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.”
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  #14  
Old 08-05-17, 12:07 PM
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Thanks to all of you for both taking the time to comment, add information and clarify things for me. Both appreciated and very useful

cheers All

Tim
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  #15  
Old 13-09-18, 04:22 AM
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Bill:
An old thread but in reviewing it I guess the list is short for CEF battalions who had no identifying number on their cap badges. All I can think of now would be 22, 259, and 260. Arguably the last two were really SEF units.
Don
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