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  #46  
Old 27-03-12, 09:34 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Before HMS New Zealand departed for her trip to New Zealand on the 8th February 1913, there were two big events that were staged on the quarterdeck of HMS New Zealand.

One of these events was the visit of King George V on the 5th February 1913. (Photos in post #s 40 & 42)

The King devoted over an hour to a general tour, and was introduced to the New Zealand-born officers and men in the crew.

The photo in post # 40 is unfortunately missing the people sitting at both ends of the second row. The following photo shows all the people that were seated in the second row, from left to right they are: —

Rear-Admiral Herbert L. Heath, Admiral Superintendent of Portsmouth Dockyard.
Captain Lionel Halsey, Captain of HMS New Zealand.
Rear-Admiral A. Gordon H. W. Moore, Third Sea Lord.
Vice-Admiral Sir John R. Jellicoe, Second Sea Lord.
The Honourable Thomas N. Mackenzie, High Commissioner for New Zealand.
Admiral Sir Hedworth Meux, Commander-in-Chief, Portsmouth.
The Right Honourable Winston L. S. Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty.
H.M. King George V.
The Honourable James Allen, New Zealand Minister of Defence.
H.S.H. Prince Louis of Battenberg, First Sea Lord.
The Right Honourable Lewis Harcourt, Secretary of State for the Colonies.
The Honourable Sir Joseph G. Ward.
The Right Honourable Thomas J. Macnamara, Parliamentary and Financial Secretary to the Board of Admiralty.
Sir W. Graham Greene, Permanent Secretary to the Board of Admiralty.
The Right Honourable George Lambert, Civil Lord of the Admiralty.
The Right Honourable Sir Francis J. S. Hopwood, Additional Civil Lord of the Admiralty.



The other important event that took place on the quarterdeck of HMS New Zealand was the unveiling of the New Zealand coat of arms.
The NZ Navy web site suggests that they were unveiled in January 1913, but my money is on that the unveiling took place on the 3rd February 1913.

It appears that the Hon. Thomas Mackenzie, High Commissioner for New Zealand, who was accompanied by his daughter, was supposed to have unveiled the coat of arms, however at the request of Captain Halsey, the task of unveiling the large New Zealand ensign covering the coat of arms was given to Miss Mackenzie.

“As the folds of the flag fell aside, the whole gathering burst into cheering. Captain Halsey gave the order, ‘Off caps!’ and the band played Rule Britannia.”

Thomas Noble Mackenzie GCMG (10 March 1854–14 February 1930)


On the 18th February 1913, a conference of educationists was held at Bristol Bristol to consider the problem of untrained (British) boy labour. The Hon. Thomas Mackenzie, High Commissioner for New Zealand, sent a letter suggesting the establishment of a farm on which lads would be given a year's agricultural training. New Zealand would then be able to absorb the lads in her primary industries.
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  #47  
Old 27-03-12, 09:36 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Default The first Onward badge

It may come as a bit of a surprise, but the British Section NZEF were not the first to be issued with an Onwards badge.

In my previous post I mentioned that two weeks after the unveiling of the coat of arms, the High Commissioner for New Zealand, Thomas Mackenzie had suggested the establishment of a farm on which lads would be given a year's agricultural training.

In short, an agricultural expert employed by the NZ High Commissioner's Office in London, was detailed by the Immigration Department to proceed into rural districts in the United Kingdom to select fifty boys with farm experience, and arrange for their passages to New Zealand, as part of a NZ Government scheme for encouraging the immigration to New Zealand of British boys brought up to a country life.

Farmers, when applying for boys, were required to state what wages they were willing to pay for the first, second and third year of apprenticeship, and in fairness, those farmers offering the best wages, received the strongest and most experienced boys.

The second batch of fifty boys embarked in the Suffolk for New Zealand on the 9th January 1914.
Thomas Mackenzie, after wishing the boys a good voyage and success at the end of it, said their first essential was steadiness, the second industry, and the third economy. They would require knowledge in the country to supplement their own previous training.

Thomas Mackenzie supplied each of these 50 boys with a small white enamel badge—
“Fern leaves surmounted by a crown, “N.Z.” and Onward”

The High Commissioner asked them to lake "Onward" for their motto.
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  #48  
Old 27-03-12, 05:05 PM
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That's very interesting stuff, Brent. Have to look out for one of the small enamel badges!
Cheers, Tinto
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  #49  
Old 31-03-12, 09:22 PM
woronora woronora is offline
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Hi

A 1917 Wills cigarette card depicting the general NZ badge as being the fern leaf 'Onward' badge.

John
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  #50  
Old 31-03-12, 09:53 PM
woronora woronora is offline
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Hi

Another two WW1 postcards depicting the NZ general infantry badge as being the fern leaf type Onward badge. It seems to me that the generally accepted opinion during WW1 was that the NZ general service badge was the fern leaf type rather than the oak leaf type. I cannot understand why NZ'ers would include oak leaves on a general service badge over the traditional fern leaves which were the commonly accepted floral symbol for NZ. I can, however, understand that the oak leaf design may have been accepted by those NZ'ers living and recruited in the UK.

John
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  #51  
Old 31-03-12, 10:13 PM
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Hi John,
Thanks for the great pictures of ONWARD badges. To my eyes, the second post card doesn't have fernleaves but possibly oak leaf fronds.
Cheers, Tinto
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  #52  
Old 01-04-12, 12:54 AM
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David Corbett describes the British section badge as having "Laurel leaves".Geoff Oldham describes them as "Oak leaves''.My question to all,Is this description a modern day one or were the badges known as this officially/unofficially at the time.There hasn't been one thread of evidence presented so far that can back up the Oakleaf /Laurel theory (which are two completely different leaves by the way).I know the silver fern is the most represented of the fern types badges,but there are other fern species in NZ without the serrated edge.Maybe this is a case of artistic liscence .The Otago Hussars hat badges could be considered in the same boat.Pattern one with the finer leaves and pattern two with the courser serrated edges.Two different impressions of the fern wreath.

Last edited by pukman; 01-04-12 at 08:35 AM.
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  #53  
Old 04-04-12, 12:36 PM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Puk it is quite common for authors to quote each other’s work that is how mistakes are made into legends.
New Zealand has over 190 species of native ferns, so I’m guessing it is likely to be one of them rather than a oak or laurel leaf.

The Onward badge story now has a new beginning, but now the hard part is to piece together how it became New Zealand’s national badge.

When I get time I will also post some picks of some of the original national NZ badge designs that weren’t chosen.
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  #54  
Old 04-04-12, 09:21 PM
woronora woronora is offline
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A fern leaf Onward collar badge worn by 53879 Private Alfred Edward Parker who served in the Canterbury Infantry Regiment of the New Zealand Expeditionary Forces during the First World War. Parker was born in 1878 and he worked as a bank accountant until his enlistment in the NZEF on 17 April 1917. Parker served on the Western Front and was discharged from service on 17 September 1919. This badge is in the Australian War Memorial's collection.

John
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  #55  
Old 05-04-12, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
Puk it is quite common for authors to quote each other’s work that is how mistakes are made into legends.
New Zealand has over 190 species of native ferns, so I’m guessing it is likely to be one of them rather than a oak or laurel leaf.

The Onward badge story now has a new beginning, but now the hard part is to piece together how it became New Zealand’s national badge.

When I get time I will also post some picks of some of the original national NZ badge designs that weren’t chosen.
In my opinion this is like a Chinese whisper ,someone says it and it becomes another version ,then everybody believes the final outcome.

The Laurel /Oak leaf theory was a 1970's /1980's one ,that was based on no historical evidence.If anyone can prove this otherwise ,then by all means .

The Onward badge was worn by the British section,collar size only, and from early 1916 onwards(both collar and cap size) by convalescing NZEF soldiers in England,especialy post Gallipoli when there derelict uniform's were replaced with new ones.There are several different varieties,all based on a fern wreath surround
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  #56  
Old 12-04-12, 01:30 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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LOL “Chinese whisper,” yes that is a polite way of describing how ‘fern leaves’ eventuated into ‘laurel leaves,’ which then eventuated into ‘oak leaves.’

Just out of interest, in the opening page of the book ‘New Zealanders at War’ by Michael King, he has included two quotes, the first quote by John Ruskin I think is worth mentioning. —

“The only history worth reading, is that written at the time of which it treats the history of what was done and seen, heard out of the mouths of the men who did and saw it.”

Interestingly, author Angus Ross used the very same Ruskin quote in the Preface (page VIII / IX) of the “Official History of New Zealand 23rd Battalion,” published in 1959.

The quote itself is an extract from John Ruskin’s book the ‘Stones of Venice Volume III: The Fall,’ which was first published in 1886. (Page 234 Appendix 9). —

“The only history worth reading is that written at the time of which it treats, the history of what was done and seen, heard out of the mouths of the men who did and saw.
One fresh draught of such history is worth more than a thousand volumes of abstracts, and reasoning’s, and suppositions, and theories; and I believe that, as we get wiser, we shall take little trouble about the history of nations who have left no distinct records of themselves, but spend our time only in the examination of the faithful documents which, in any period of the world, have been left, either in the form of art or literature, portraying the scenes, or recording the events, which in those days were actually passing before the eyes of men.”


Well, at least I was inspired by it.

Some more of my favourite Ruskin quotes are. —

“Our duty is to preserve what the past has had to say for itself, and to say for ourselves what shall be true for the future.”

“Say all you have to say in the fewest possible words, or your reader will be sure to skip them; and in the plainest possible words or he will certainly misunderstand them.”
(Perhaps something I should try)

“There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
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  #57  
Old 12-04-12, 02:24 AM
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Good quotes, Brent, and certainly the way to research history, or in this case, badges.
All the Best, Tinto
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  #58  
Old 12-04-12, 11:29 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Tinto, as time permits I will use Ruskin’s philosophy to get to the bottom of the “NZ General Service badge” question.

But first I think it is worth mentioning that the Onwards badge was not New Zealand’s first National military badge.

The first NZ National badge was adopted during the Boer War after the Defence Department in November 1900 issued an order, requesting Officers commanding districts to submit designs for a national badge to be worn on the collar.

The design chosen was the fern leaf badge with the letters “N.Z,” which was most probably inspired by the New Zealand 1st Contingent who painted a fern leaf with the letters “N.Z.” underneath on the right side of their helmets.



The date of the first issue of fern leaf badges has eluded me so far, I can only speculate that they were first issued around the 16th January going by the photographs. The Manufacturers of the “N.Z. fern leaf badges” was Wellington Jewellers Mr Rash and Mr Gooder of Willis Street. The firm turned out 12,000 of these badges and 12,000-shoulder titles (N.Z.M.R).
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  #59  
Old 12-04-12, 07:27 PM
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Hi Brent,
Yes, the fernleaf appears to be our first national badge. As you know, there are several versions of these.
Note that my post #25 in this thread shows a fernleaf badge on the same page as the "Oakleaf Onward" badge.
Cheers,
Tinto
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  #60  
Old 17-04-12, 05:05 AM
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Guys,
Just a couple of photo's I've been meaning to add to this great thread.
First ones are of two "Onward" collars.
The first we have already covered as a cap badge - but this one is solid backed bronze - officers collar?
The second has the stylised laurel leaves in its fern-leaf boarder
The last two are just some photo's of other Fern badges
Top: Circa 1895 (Oldham) collars (I see the new book states these are to the Wakatu (Nelson?) Mounted Rifles - not a matching pair.... one day.. - would be nice to see a photo of these being worn if anyone has one
Middle: 1911 Coronation (George V) - is this a cap/collar or collar?
Bottom: 1st North Canterbury Mounted Rifles Collar - looks to be re-lugged.... but the only one I have come across in a while....

Best Regards
James..
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