2nd Queen Alexandra's Mtd Rifles

[Corey]

Hello
Question please.
2nd Queen Alexandra's Mtd Rifles

Can anyone enlighten me as to these badges being ww1 or ww2 or later as I see some have a variation to the design with the sky line at the base of the punga tree.
All mine are blackened brass with loop lugs to the rear.
Some have a more rounded skyline.....is this just a variation or did the pattern change over time.
I do understand they still use this design today but they have spikes rather than lugs to the rear.
Any help would be fantastic.

Cheers
Corey

[Tinto]

Hi Corey,
There are several variations to this badge. In my opinion, just manufacturer's variations. Not sure if possible to date these.
Cheers, Tinto

[atillathenunns]

It will always come down to the fact that the 2nd Queen Alexandra's issued their troopers with regimental badges which in peace time remained the property of the regiment, as such it is very possible that badges worn during WW1 may have been reissued post WW1.

On the bright side I do have a vet acquired 2nd Queen Alexandra's badge that issued just prior to WW2, and will post a pic when I can locate my camera.

However I am leaning to Gaunt beening the first to produce the Queen Alexandra's badge after it was authorised by General Godley on the 23rd August 1911, and I suspect Gaunt would have continued to supply QA badges up until the end of WW1.

[Corey]

Thank you both for your input.
Of the three I was looking at on my board only the center badge has the Gaunt London tab even though they all share the same flat skyline I was talking about, and the only difference being the gap/space between the words Queen Alexandra's.

The Oldham book and Corbett's book both only show the rounded skyline badge so that's what got me asking the question.
Thanks again.

Cheers
Corey

[atillathenunns]

The following two badges were given to me by a family friend who served in WW2, and to be honest I am not sure if the Queen Alexandra's badge was issued pre or post WW2.
The green backing is interestingly made of plastic and the Onward badge has a felt green backing.



The noticeable difference between the following Gaunt made badge on the left and unmarked one on the right is that the 2 is smaller on the Gaunt badge.



Both badges are die stamped and were hand cut from sheets of brass, which could explain variations of skyline.

[atillathenunns]

The following is the original badge design approved in 1911 for the 2nd Queen Alexandra's Mounted Rifles, it shows Von Tempsky’s head, with the motto VNOEA which is Latin for.— Nothing can resist valour of arms.



For reasons to long to explain, Von Tempsky’s head badge design was changed and the following design was submitted by the Officer Commanding the 2nd Queen Alexandra's, and was approved by General Godley.

[Corey]

The other difference I see with the two badges you have shown being the number of branches, Fronds as per photo attached.
I have seen this lack of fronds with the badge in Oldham 9/31.
But that's listed in the newer badge section.....

Cheers
Corey

[woronora]

Hi Brent and Corey

Thank you for the interesting discussion in the slight variations in the QA Mtd Rifle badges. I tend to support Tinto's thoughts that the differences may be manufacturer's variations.

Brent, in one of your earlier posts you mentioned that Gaunt lost its contract for manufacturing NZ badges due to overpricing (some may call it war profiteering) in 1917. Did Gaunt regain the NZ contract for badges later in WW1?

Cheers

John

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by Corey

The other difference I see with the two badges you have shown being the number of branches, Fronds as per photo attached.
I have seen this lack of fronds with the badge in Oldham 9/31.
But that's listed in the newer badge section.....

Cheers
Corey

Corey I have done a bit of research and am of the opinion my QA badge dates somewhere between 1944 and 1956, and if I were to believe the plastic green backing it would narrow it down to 1944 to 1947, but the green backing may well have been added as a veterans addition for an ANZAC day parade.

The point regarding the number of branches is something I had seen but put down due to each badge being individually hand cut, but the branch configuration being the same in modern QA badges, could be an easy way of identifying 1940s/1950s QA period badges.

I am not sure when the Queen Alexandra's Squadron adopted the smaller sized collar badges, but at earliest it is likely to be in the late 1950s or more likely sometime in the 1960s.
In any case the approved QA pattern cap and collar badges was to be made of blackened metal (Provided at unit expense), and the cap badge was worn on the beret with a green diamond patch, which helps us identify the more modern issue badges.

I am also of the opinion that the Gaunt made QA Badges date from circa 1911 to the end of WW1, and the following unmarked badge dates from around 1915 to post WW1.

[atillathenunns]

Originally Posted by woronora

Hi Brent and Corey

Thank you for the interesting discussion in the slight variations in the QA Mtd Rifle badges. I tend to support Tinto's thoughts that the differences may be manufacturer's variations.

Indeed, slight variations would suggest they are manufacturer's variations, which in theory suggest different times of issue, which in turn could possibly be put into a speculative time line based on information as it becomes available.
The more information, such as named QA uniforms that exist in private and public collections, the time lines can be more accurately defined.

Although the following Newspaper clipping from the Northern Advocate , dated 27th February 1913, is regarding Regimental badges of the 11th North Auckland Mounted Rifles, it clearly shows that regimental badges issued by the regiment, remained the property of the regiment, and were commonly reissued.



The following NZ Army documents dated 8th March 1951 are “Stock Return” for “C” Group, which represent the badge and button stock levels at that date.
At the top of “Sheet 3” QAMR badges are numbered at 98 badges in stock.

Originally Posted by woronora

Brent, in one of your earlier posts you mentioned that Gaunt lost its contract for manufacturing NZ badges due to overpricing (some may call it war profiteering) in 1917. Did Gaunt regain the NZ contract for badges later in WW1?

Brig-General Richardson, Commandant of the NZEF in the UK ordered an investigation by a Captain in the Ordnance Office regarding the costs of badges and buttons supplied by Gaunt who were the New Zealand Governments preferred supplier of military badges.
General Richardson’s condemning letter sent to the Wellington HQ, dated 30th April 1917, used the term “Exorbitant prices” and requested badges and buttons should be tendered for in future.

It appears Gaunt were not successful NZ Government badge tenders until after WW2.
However as I mentioned in the NZMGS thread, NZ Regimental and Corps provided their own badges and had the freedom to choose their own preferred manufacturer, some stayed with Gaunt, most didn’t, as such it is very hard to find New Zealand badges made by Gaunt between the wars.