Yorkshire Dragoons

[sean michael cronin]

Andy at the foot of the page Cavalry, Yeomanry, Tank/RAC Badges when opened up you will find yourself on page one, if you move it to last page you will find an earlier posting of mine on the Yorks Dragoon insignia. Hope this helps cheers Sean.

[3dg]

Hello all
I was looking at a past thread about yorkshire dragoons arm badges and i wondered if someone could let me know of different types there are of the YD arm badge.
Types of metal used?
Were they all die stamped?
The types of fittings used?
And does a cloth version exist?

Your help in this matter will be greatly appreciated, thank you

[Deejayuu]

Hi 3DG,
to answer your questions requires a great depth of knowledge in a very specific regiment. From the lack of response to your question on arm badges it seems we are lacking in this knowledge in this field. No response does not mean that your question is not valid nor interesting merely that we do not have the answer to your question. Whilst i cannot answer your question i can post a couple of badges that should be of interest. Helmet plates to the 1st & 2nd West Yorkshire Yeomanry Cavalry. The 1st went on to become the Yorks Dragoons, the 2nd was disbanded in 1894.
I personally collect cap badges to all regiments but being a Tyke do have an emphasis on Yorkshire badges. Have a look at my West Yorks album. I intend at some point to post other albums on the yeomanry of Yorkshire as well as other regiments.

[Peter Brydon]

As Deejayuu says this really requires some onewho specialises in this regiment or the yeomanry generally.

However there was an article in the Military Historical Society Bulletin of February 1960 on Yeomanry Arm badges. See attachments

No 13 Yorkshire Dragoons
Crown over white rose of Yorshire,in brass.Worn above the chevrons by corporals and above.

I am sure there was an article on Yeomanry arm badges in the Crown Imperial magazine which I will try and find.

See also "Cavalry and Yeomanry badges of the British Army 1914" by Wilkinson and probably worth looking in the booklet for the Yorkshire Dragoons in the "Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794-1915" series.

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

The late Walter Lambert had 2 articles in the Crown Imperial magazine in 1998, the first was on metal yeomanry arm badges and the second on cloth yeomanry arm badges.

In the first article ,for the Yorkshire Dragoons fig 37 is a kings crown above a rose and is described as" white metal 61.4mm x 33.5mm.Brooch type fixing arranged vertically "

No mention of a cloth arm badge for this unit in the second article.

Hope this is of some help If you are able to contact Bob Smith or Keith Smith they would I am sure be able to give you chapter and verse.

P.B.

[pjac]

Does anybody know of a reason why a 2nd West Yorkshire Yeomanry trooper's helmet would not have a white metal/silver rose? I have a helmet which seems authentic in every respect except that the rose is of the same metal as the brass strap.Could it have been plated and the plating has worn off? The rose and strap appear to be one piece, but I can't get to the screws to take the plate off to look properly at the components , without damaging the sweat band. I would expect this plate to look like that in post 33. See photo -I presume the hole in the rose at about 9 o'clock is something to do with the production process?


Thanks, Patrick

[Deejayuu]

Originally Posted by pjac

Does anybody know of a reason why a 2nd West Yorkshire Yeomanry trooper's helmet would not have a white metal/silver rose? I have a helmet which seems authentic in every respect except that the rose is of the same metal as the brass strap.Could it have been plated and the plating has worn off? The rose and strap appear to be one piece, but I can't get to the screws to take the plate off to look properly at the components , without damaging the sweat band. I would expect this plate to look like that in post 33. See photo -I presume the hole in the rose at about 9 o'clock is something to do with the production process?


Thanks, Patrick

Lovely helmet Patrick, you have me drooling. As you say the plate should have a white metal central rose but it looks as though yours is missing. The rose would be an overlay retained with a couple of wires. The holes at 3 and 9 oclock on your plate show where they were attached.
Cheers, Dave. Another alternative is the trooper had Lancastrian tendencies and preferred a red rose!?!?

[pjac]

Dave

Thanks for solving this one for me. I didn't realise that overlays like that were used. Don't suppose I'll ever find a replacement! I'm a Lancastrian, but even I think that it should have a white rose.

Patrick

[Rockape]

Hi Patrick,

I collect yeomanry badges, but this is before my collecting period though. I do tend to agree with the others that a wm overlay is missing.

Referring back to an earlier post in this thread about YD arm badges, I have one I can show. It's dimensions are 34mm x 62mm and has been fitted with a pin

[Peter Brydon]

It is amazing that when looking for something as specific as the white metal rose, although it may take some time,you may just fall on a similar item that could be used to complete the plate.

I have been lucky on a number of occasions when searching for some obscure part, always worth looking in dealers bits and pieces boxes.

P.B.

[pjac]

Thanks everybody. I'll keep an eye out for such a piece and would appreciate it if you guys could do the same for me.

A question - it occurs to me that, pending discovering the missing bit, I could carefully apply a bit of silver enamel paint to the brass rose, so that the helmet does at least look more how it should. I normally wouldn't mess around with anything, but the helmet shouldn't look like it does now anyway, and the rose would , hopefully, be covered again at some point. The purist in me says 'don't', the pragmatist says 'why not?'

Views, please?

Patrick

[Peter Brydon]

It is such a nice nice item, my advice would be dont.

P.B.

[Deejayuu]

The chances of finding a wm rose from a similar plate whilst not impossible I think is rather remote. I had a thought about using another type of badge as a donor, closest I could think of is the 49th div pre first war sleeve badge. WM rose only fractionally larger than the plate badge but and of a slightly different pattern. Would be easy to adapt one of these sleeve badges by removing the single screw stud to the rear and having a couple of wires adding on. I would not advise anyone to cut up a good badge to act as a donor for another, especially one to a Yorkshire unit. I believe these badges have been repro-ed so as a stop gap until a more appropriate donor one of these could be used. I have scanned the complete plate alongside the 49th div badge for comparison.

Cheers Dave.

PS, the rose is not for sale!!!!!

[Peter Brydon]

Not sure how they compare size wise but if you dont want to uses a Yorkshire rose you may be able to use an East Lancs or DLOY collar,take off the lugs, have wires fitted in the correct places and have it silver plated.

P.B.

[pjac]

Thanks for the ideas. I'll keep an eye out for an original piece, but a creative substitute may be the answer.

Patrick