Essex Yeomanry

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi Expat. I think your affirming the validity on this might get challenged, based on some comments on the image in my album. Thanks for the input though.

Cheers

Simon.

[Mike Jackson]

Could anyone please tell me on approximately what date the black beret was adopted for wear by 147 (Essex Yeomanry) Fd Regt RA(TA), an SP (25pdr Sexton) regiment serving in 8 Armd Bde in NW Europe?
Thanks. Mike

[Expat Yeoman]

Mike,

The Regimental histories are silent on the subject of the black berets and I've found just one reference in the EY Journal of berets being introduced to the Regiment "during the war" and 147 wearing black ones, and the Regiment then adopting green berets "after the war", which is partially helpful..

The histories record 147 departing 42nd Armd Div to join 8th Armd Bde around September 1943, and then leaving that Bde on 11th June 1945. I think that gives a likely bracket range, although I suspect that they would have continued to wear a black beret through to disbandment in Feb 1946 - speculation on my part for that later period but I can't think changing berets was high on the priority list! But also because the history does record that "the Brigade sign of the Fox's mask was never abandoned" - I would think it would be all or none in that respect.

I'm back in the UK in a couple of months, I'll see if I can find out any more from the archives then.

As an aside, I have uploaded an example of the officer's beret badge from their time in the Bde to my EY album.

Michael

[Alan O]

http://www.essex-yeomanry.org.uk/his...e-gallery.html

This has some great albums where you can track the use of the EY cap badge from the Imperial Sincere motto badge worn on cap and collars, to the round Decus motto, circa WW1.

There is only one photo that clearly shows the larger badge with scrolls worn by a Cpl Ken Grundy with RA collars. Although in the 1900-1920 album it must be interwar as he is a gunner. Afternote: Photo dates from 1939.

Then with reroling a return to the use of the small badge (scrolless collar) on cap and collars in WW2.

Post war the reduced sized badge with scrolls seems to be in use and then a conversion to RSIGNALS.

[Alan O]

I don't know if any one else noted but there is no evidence from the WW1 photos albums of anything other than the plain circular (Decus et Tutatmen in centre) badge in use.

The first photo with the Decus et Tutatmen on a lower scroll is post war.

[Rockape]

Yes I noticed this too but had previously thought that K&K had the timeline mixed-up for the badges they showed in their books.

[Expat Yeoman]

I've not been able to find any photos of the scrolled pattern badge being worn before 1939 although the KC pattern scrolled badge (KK1493) was according to KK sealed in August 1916.

The photo of Cpl Ken Grundy is definitely in the wrong section, he enlisted with the EY in 1939 and served in 414 Bty. I also have pictures of Len Tutt and others from 414 wearing the RA cannon cap badge in FSC and SD cap in early WW2, most likely their badges from basic RA training rather than the EY pattern.

The D et T pattern should have been the only non-scrolled pattern worn since it was introduced in 1909 although I'm told some members from the Imperial Yeomanry days continued to wear the earlier Audacter et Sincere patterns on collars and the EIY officer's mess lapel badges.

[Alan O]

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=135797

Jelly Terror has provided a wartime picture of a EY Tpr with the '1915' period cap badge with its scroll and distinctive shaped crown.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Alan O

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=135797

Jelly Terror has provided a wartime picture of a EY Tpr with the '1915' period cap badge with its scroll and distinctive shaped crown.

Thanks Alan.

Anyone happen to have the K&K reference to hand for this particular badge, please?

IMG_8904.jpg

(Closer view of collars for reference):

IMG_8909.jpg

[fougasse1940]

K&K 1493.

Rgds, Thomas.

[Alan O]

I don't know whether this was an official badge or one of the yeomanry procured ones. I suspect it was regtly bought but whether that was by 1/1, 1/2 or 1/3st or all3 I am not sure.

[Expat Yeoman]

The angular crown badge with even spacing of ESSEX YEOMANRY on the scroll is KK1492 (1493 is the corrected spacing with a KC)

Jelly's photo is labelled as KK1493 but I agree it looks like the 1916 KK1492 badge.

I trawled through my photos and found the following which look like they are the flat topped badge - the first undated but early, can someone date by the uniform? The second, curiously, is from 1940 which would make it a very late usage! Difficult to say conclusively but it looks more like a 1492 than 1493.

Thoughts please..

[Expat Yeoman]

And then returning to the earlier topic of the no scroll unvoided EY badge... I mentioned before that the museum held a photo showing that badge being worn. I've now managed to get a copy from them and post it here (with their request that it is not reproduced elsewhere please, whilst they hold the photo it is actually owned privately and on loan to them only).

So I put this up for comments. To my eye the SSM on the front row (sixth from left) looks like he is wearing an unvoided badge - it looks larger that the other cap badges and the collars, and looks unvoided. There are other potentials but this one looks the clearest.

The photo is taken in Brasted in 1917 which makes it one of the Squadrons from 2/1st EY. It was previously suggested that they were worn by 3/1st (hence the file naming) but this is definitely 2/1st with that location.

Thoughts please...

[Rockape]

Good work Michael,

It does indeed appear to be the non-voided badge. I still think that collectors should be aware that some of the non-voided examples you see circulating in the marketplace do not appear to be 100 year old badges. If in doubt get it out and show it here.

[Alan O]

[QUOTE=Expat Yeoman;392294]
I trawled through my photos and found the following which look like they are the flat topped badge - the first undated but early, can someone date by the uniform? QUOTE]

The uniform is of the pre war pattern. The tunic and cap are not the wartime versions worn from 1915 onwards but that is not to say he is not wearing a pre war tunic and hat in 1916 or later. The Yeomanry collars do suggest a date before their conversion to RA post WW1.

Thanks for showing the picture.