Staffordshire Yeomanry cap badges

[GCR817]

I am a collector of Canadian badges so am not very well versed in Imperial badges. I was told that this pair of silver collars are Victorian period. They are not hallmarked but appear to me silver.

Can anyone tell me what period they date from? Any Staffordshire collectors out there dying to have these?

Cheers,

Geoff

[Alan O]

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...?t=8156&page=5

South Staffordshire Collars have been discussed here on page 5.

[Nick Mugford]

I am mulling over weather to purchase a Staff Yeomanry KC cap badge and was wondering if a fake would still put BP & Co on the slider?
Cheers,
Nick

[Alan O]

There are several designs of Staffs Yeomanry. If it is white metal knot and crown then it is not Staffs yeomanry at all but Handsworth Grammar School. There is a thread on the Staffs yeomanry badges already with lots of info. BP&Co Bham was a gneuine mark but rather rare and has been faked.

[Nick Mugford]

Originally Posted by Alan O

There are several designs of Staffs Yeomanry. If it is white metal knot and crown then it is not Staffs yeomanry at all but Handsworth Grammar School. There is a thread on the Staffs yeomanry badges already with lots of info. BP&Co Bham was a gneuine mark but rather rare and has been faked.

Alan,
Would this Handsworth Grammar School Badge be worth having at a reasonable price. In other words is it collectable?
Cheers,
Nick

[Alan O]

Not really worth much as if you remove the scroll from a South Staffs badge you get an instant Handsworth OTC badge! Consequently they do not sell well.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Not really worth much as if you remove the scroll from a South Staffs badge you get an instant Handsworth OTC badge! Consequently they do not sell well.

fancy saying that about my old school Alan

The OTC closed down in the 1920`s i think.It certainly wasnt about when i was there.The badge doesnt appear in K&K.Affliation to the Staffs comes from the fact that Handsworth used to be part of Staffordshire rather than Birmingham.The knot however appears on the school badge above the bridge,which still exists today.

[Peter Brydon]

Interestingly in this mornings post was the latest West Midlands MHS Branch circular which is written by Jake Whitehouse ( Co author of "The Staffords 1981-1978" with Guido Rosignoli and with his wife Co author of "A Town for Four Winters "

Jake has a small article on Handsworth Grammar School OTC with 2 post card illustrations showing the white metal stafford knot with crown above being worn by members of the Corps.

To quote the article ".......It is identical to that ( the badge ) of the Staffordshire Yeomanry.In fact exactly like the badge of the South Staffords but without the underneath.The cap badge of Queen Marys Grammar School Walsall was indeed that of the South Staffords and one wonders why Handsworth didnt follow suit."

I know it does not add to what has already been said here on the Forum but it is another source for the subject.

P.B.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Staffordshire Yeomanry

King's Crown aa silver Cat# CB 3197 pattern # 15193 16th October 1951, this pattern to be used for St. Edward's Crown.

St. Edward's Crown white metal Cat# CB 2991 sealed 8th August 1952.

St. Edward's Crown aa silver Cat# CB 3197 entered the vocab 21st August 1953, cat# kept from KC version.

'B' (Staffordshire Yeomanry) Squadron of The Mercian Yeomanry.

Hi Guys,

Very late on this but this is the information I have re: A/A items:

1. Both Tudor and St. Edward's Crowns were authorised for issue as described by change C 8797 which gives information for both crowns and also the pattern number for the Tudor Crown anodised aluminium item.

2. Change C 8797 of List Of Changes dated 31st October 1958 - Change Numbers C 8773 to C 8835:

NEW PATTERN. A pattern (No. 17480) has been sealed to govern future manufacture. The new pattern differs from the old (No. 15193 Cat. No. CB 3197) (C 4717)) in that it incorporates the St. Edward Crown. The existing Cat. No. CB 3197 has been retained for the new pattern and designation.

NOTE: The first A/A badges had CB numbers starting at 3000.

3. Priced at 11 shillings and 6 pennies each (25th November 1966).

As such, I consider that both the Tudor and St. Edward's crown was officially authorised for issue.

Regards

Chris

[Alan O]

Chris,

Could you clarify if this was the crown and knot pattern or the later garter and crown pattern (which had been the Officers design)? I have seen a/a examples of the latter but not the former.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Chris,

Could you clarify if this was the crown and knot pattern or the later garter and crown pattern (which had been the Officers design)? I have seen a/a examples of the latter but not the former.

Hi Alan,

Give me 12 hours mate as I may have photos the sealed pattern card at least for the QC pattern. As the LoC designation description states it differs only in the crown the we can safly assume the KC A/A version is basically the same as the QC.

I'll post more when I have it later.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Hi Alan,

This is a bit of a mystery now but lets try to sort it out.

Attached is a piccy of a sealed pattern card for the Staffordshire Yeomanry (Added to title later) B SQDN. Queen's Own Mercian Yeomanry.

This pattern number does not reconcile with the LoC pattern number although the CB number on the pattern card (crossed through) remains the same.

I would say this is what has happened.

1) Both the Tudor and St Edwards Crown A/A versions were authorised for issue in the crown and knot variant as per K+K 1413 with pattern numbers 15193 (Tudor) and 17480 (St Edward). I would suggest though that these badges were never manufactured in bulk or issued. This is the version covered in the List Of Changes C 8797.

2) In the early 1960's the more modern version with the garter was created in St Edwards Crown only as per pattern no 19288 as per K+K 2307. This is shown in the pattern card attached to this post. This item was manufactured in bulk and issued. This version is not covered in the List of Changes (which was about to be shut down) but is covered in the CCN of 1963 and following COSA's of (e.g.) 1973 with the following Item Description:


The Queens's Own Mercian Yeomanry. Soldier; The Stafford knot within the Garter inscribed "Honi Soit Qui Hal Y Pense", below, a scroll inscribed "Pro Ariset Focis" surmounted by crown.

This leaves the unanswered question of where those Tudor Crowned later versions with garter came from...

Regards

Chris

[bob3880]

Handsworth Grammar School OTC - Yes, have seen a 1920s/30s photo of OTC cadets wearing the wm crown and Stafford knot capbadge. I have not, alas, yet seen Jake Whitehouse's article on the subject. (If anyone cd direct me to it, I wd be grateful.) I attended the school 1948-56 when, although Handsworth UDC had been taken into Birmingham in 1911, the by then CCF wore the full South Stafford capbadge i.e. wm crown and knot over a brass scroll 'South Staffordshire'. The CCF was disbanded sometime, I believe, in the 1960s by which time some diligent person had caused the Corps to wear the R Warwicks capbadge. Don't know when original badge discontinued.

[jackb]

I have a Queen's crown white metal badge which has no sign of alteration, is well made and the original slider bears the makers name 'Marples & Beasley Birmingham - I was under the impression that the latter was a maker of repute - any ideas. jackb

[Alan O]

Unfortunately it is not and that is not a yeomanry badge as there was no q/c version. It is a South Staffs regt cap with the scroll missing. Sorry.