4 CLY Sharpshooters - That cap badge.

[PeterA]

The postman dropped a nice little package through the door today, a 4 CLY, big 4, collar in fine condition...a 'buy it' now at £2.50!

PeterA

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by PeterA

The postman dropped a nice little package through the door today, a 4 CLY, big 4, collar in fine condition...a 'buy it' now at £2.50!

PeterA

Damn it, I missed that one. Is it stamped W.S Hall, Sheffield to the rear?

[PeterA]

Old Smelly:- Well you have to win one now and again to compensate for the 'expensive fake' purchases.

Keith Blakeman:- My search criteria are specific to my main focus - Sharpshooters. It had been posted just 31 minutes prior to my bid. 'W & H Ld SHFD' on the rear. There are at least five variations of the 4 CLY collar.

Joachim:- Images attached.

PeterA

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by PeterA

Old Smelly:- Well you have to win one now and again to compensate for the 'expensive fake' purchases.

Keith Blakeman:- My search criteria are specific to my main focus - Sharpshooters. It had been posted just 31 minutes prior to my bid. 'W & H Ld SHFD' on the rear. There are at least five variations of the 4 CLY collar.

Joachim:- Images attached.

PeterA

I did see it, but never noticed the 'buy it now' and I gave it a miss as one of the loops appeared to be twisted round on itself.

Attached are mine, both Hall plus a single CLY collar.

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

I did see it, but never noticed the 'buy it now' and I gave it a miss as one of the loops appeared to be twisted round on itself.

Attached are mine, both Hall plus a single CLY collar.

Keith

The loops were not visible on the single ebay image posted, so must be another badge.

The 23rd LAC CLY collar comes in both cast and pressed form....as does the 4 CLY.

Peter

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by PeterA

Keith

The loops were not visible on the single ebay image posted, so must be another badge.

The 23rd LAC CLY collar comes in both cast and pressed form....as does the 4 CLY.

Peter

The one Griff has mentioned is the one I saw, I thought I was losing it for a minute.

I've only ever seen dodgy cast Gaunt 4 CLY in cap badge size.

[Mike Jackson]

Could any resident expert tell me what brass shoulder titles were worn by 4 CLY in WW2. I'm particularly interested in the unusual design illustrated in Boris Mollo's book The Sharpshooters (p 70) - a curved title 4 CLY over "SHARPSHOOTERS"
Was this actually worn?
Thanks
Mike

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Could any resident expert tell me what brass shoulder titles were worn by 4 CLY in WW2. I'm particularly interested in the unusual design illustrated in Boris Mollo's book The Sharpshooters (p 70) - a curved title 4 CLY over "SHARPSHOOTERS"
Was this actually worn?
Thanks
Mike

I've got one of these along with the 4CLY and a long SHARPSHOOTERS one. The last is almost certainly theatre made. For a short lived unit there are a lot of titles. I'd like to see some photos of any of them being worn, along with the 4 cap badge.

[Mike Jackson]

Keith,
Many thanks. I've not been able to find an image of the first or third titles being worn, but at least one of the Wehrmacht images of the CLY prisoners in Normandy shows the second - 4 CLY - title being worn.
Yeo.4_CLY_Normandy_PW.jpg
Mike

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Keith,
Many thanks. I've not been able to find an image of the first or third titles being worn, but at least one of the Wehrmacht images of the CLY prisoners in Normandy shows the second - 4 CLY - title being worn.

Mike

Thanks for the photo Mike. Have they had their cap badges removed ?

I should have pointed out earlier, the curved title also has a maker stamp Walker & Hall, Sheffield. This company also made the collars (supposedly also worn in the beret) with the odd shaped 4.

[Mike Jackson]

A question from my co-author of the CLY article for Militaria:
Has anyone has clear information on the wearing of the CLY NCO's badge by 3 CLY, the 4 CLY and then the 3/4 CLY during WW II on the BD blouse or was it reserved for the blue patrols?
From which rank was it worn Cpl, L/Sgt etc...? Above the stripes or on them?
Any information would be gratefully received
Mike

[Old Smelly]

I have a WW2 Sgts BD that has no arm badge, I'm fairly certain that there are no holes or signs of it having been worn but I will double check
Lee

[Old Smelly]

I also have the 4CLY titles as 1&2 above, but another curved set I have are just 4CLY and on close inspection it would appear that the ''Sharpshooters'' title below has been cut off, not sure why
Lee

[Mike Jackson]

Lee,
Many thanks. Your information is, as usual, invaluable
Mike

[PeterA]

I picked up another variation of the 4 CLY cap badge on ebay last week. It was from a respected dealer who had bought it with a collection from auctioneers Wallis & Wallis.

It may go some way to explaining why we have never seen the full size cap badge with the 'stylized 4' as illustrated in the Boris Mollo book. The Sharpshooter Museum do not have an example.

It had been suspected that the smaller scale 'collar' had been worn as a cap badge in photographs taken presumably in N. Africa.

The badge in question (with the red dot) is quite crude in construction, a casting, and gives the typical appearance of a badge made in theatre.

The white metal '4' seems to have been taken from a collar and re-brazed to the larger brass casting.

The 'regular 4' cap badge for comparison in the image is a fake.

There must be a reason why there is a disproportionate number of 'stylized 4' collars to cap badges. The 'collars' in cast and pressed form appear regularly, but until now never a cap badge.

The 'stylized 4' collar in the image has been converted to pin fixing, with evidence where the lugs have been removed. So either a 'sweetheart' or possibly for temporary fitment to a service hat with minimal damage.

PeterA