Unknown KC Bugle - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Luke H · #1 23-03-21, 11:07 PM

Recently had an enjoyable discussion with a forum member on this unknown bugle (French horn) badge.

We felt there may be a London or V.B. connection.

I do not believe it to be missing an ‘attached’ numeral or central device, no signs anything was ever tagged on.

Would anyone be able to positively identify it or have any ideas?

leigh kitchen · #2 23-03-21, 11:41 PM

Darn it, can't remember, I think I have one.
Royal Rifles Reserve Regiment?
There's a good thread on this design of badge on the forum somewhere.
You know more than you're saying though, dont you?

Luke H · #3 24-03-21, 12:03 AM

I should have said the size. It is only W = 39mm x H = 42mm.

Definitely not Royal Rifles Reserve Regiment, they were disbanded in May 1901 so wouldn’t have had a KC. Notwithstanding the former was just a plain French horn without a crown and is significantly larger.

Below pic shows size difference.

Alas I know naaaaaafin’ about this one.

manchesters · #4 24-03-21, 09:51 AM

Luke,

What I would call a generic badge.

Numerals could be worn loose in the centre.

Used in the British Indian Army quite a bit.

regards

leigh kitchen · #5 24-03-21, 09:53 AM

I realised my mistake re the Royal Rifles Reserve Regiment but by the time I did it was the early hours.
I confused myself, thinking of a thread on the various French horn type badges including the RRRR.
An interesting thread, but I can't find it.

I have this, I thought it was bronzed but a closer look shows it's blackened, it measures 40mm high x 45mm wide.

leigh kitchen · #6 24-03-21, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters

Luke,

What I would call a generic badge.

Numerals could be worn loose in the centre.

Used in the British Indian Army quite a bit.

regards

I tend to think of these kinds of badges with and without crowns as generic though not exclusively for volunteer units and the like.

By coincidence I was looking at a similar badge but in w/m or silver, 20mm x 30mm and with Victorian Crown on a South African sales site yesterday - Royal Durban Rifles collar badge.

Luke H · #7 24-03-21, 06:24 PM

Very interesting, thanks both.

Until now I had been under the impression use of generic pattern items had gone out during the QVC period so by time KC dies were sealed 1901/02 items had an alignment to specific Regiment or Corps.

The Indian army is an avenue that had not even crossed my mind.

Nice badge Leigh, I’m sure mine must be same dimensions. Combo knocks and late-night measuring probably account for my ones discrepancy.

leigh kitchen · #8 24-03-21, 06:57 PM

I bought it with a RRRR badge.........

Fatherofthree · #9 24-03-21, 10:39 PM

If I'm correct, The Royal Fusiliers wore this badge in blackened brass with a QVC in the mid 1800s.

Just as soon as I find my references and photograph my badge I'll add another post.

Regards.

Brian

Luke H · #10 24-03-21, 10:51 PM

Thanks Brian, yes, the similarities 19th Middlesex RV shown in Ron Handley’s book jumped out at me also after it was brought to my attention.

Unfortunately I don’t have the book to post a better pic.

As you say thought it was quite a bit earlier and I think the literature goes on to say the design changed quickly with numerals added.

Fatherofthree · #11 24-03-21, 11:29 PM

Luke, my apologies.

I should have said 1st London, which were as you know badged as Fusiliers, their antecedents being the 19th and then 10th Middlesex Rifle Volunteers onto 1st VB Royal fusiliers.

I will post the bits and pieces form Ron Handley's book tomorrow; yes you are correct, the addition of a number came soon after the badge was in service.

Regards.

Brian

Fatherofthree · #12 25-03-21, 10:45 PM

Here you are Luke:

My badge with QVC

IMG_2295.jpg

Articles from Ron Handley's book, The First Londons.

IMG_2289.jpg IMG_2290.jpg

Regards.

Brian

Luke H · #13 25-03-21, 10:51 PM

Many thanks Brian. What a super little badge. I can now see the ornate design on the bugle is actually quite different between the two. Found a copy of said book on eBay quite cheap so bought it, looking forward to having a read. Cheers again.

leigh kitchen · #14 26-03-21, 07:31 AM

I'd better dig my copy out and do a bit of learning.

Mike H · #15 26-03-21, 07:56 AM

They are generic really. I think it would be very difficult to pin down which Regt it belonged to exactly.
I have the same badge in silver plate. Worn on the pouch by the 1st Cadet Btn KRRC. The Officer wears a standard Rifles Officers service dress except the crossbelt and pouch which are to the 1st CDT Btn pattern.