Identify this Badge Please

[mikerace]

Can anyone help me identifying this Badge please? Im led to believe that this is a Royal Engineers badge??

The handsome chap is my Great Uncle called Walter, the only info i have is very vague. Apparently he was hit with flack whilst aboard a horsa glider D-Day -1, he was then taken to Scotland to Buchanan Castle and died of his injuries. This info was given to my grandad by his Dad who was a bit of a romancer, so im trying to find exactly what happend to him.

Regards

Mike

[Alan O]

Definately not RE. The collar badges are Infantry - York and Lancaster Regiment I believe but I stand to be corrected. He is a LCpl in the picture by the way.
Alan

[mikerace]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Definately not RE. The collar badges are Infantry - York and Lancaster Regiment I believe but I stand to be corrected. He is a LCpl in the picture by the way.
Alan

Ok thanks, on his grave (which we think is his) it says, Royal Engineers, and the rank of Captain.

http://www.twgpp.org/information.php?id=1057364

He must have moved around.

[BWEF]

Are you 100% sure that the man in the photo is the same great uncle who was buried as a Captain in the Royal Engineers in 1945?

A pre-war lance jack in an infantry regiment might have got a commission in WW2, but would have been unlikely to get one in the Royal Engineers.

You probably needed a high level of technical education for an Engineers commission, and an infantry L/Cpl with long service stripes is unlikely to have had it.

Were there any other great uncles of military age?

Hello Mike,

The name on the gravestone looks like W N Race to my eyes, could it be possible you have the the wrong man?

There is a Walter S Race listed on the WW2 Roll of Honour on http://www.military-genealogy.com - If you buy the record you may find something useful to your search..

Hope this helps,

Jonny

[tynesideirish]

Mike, I can see where BWEF is coming from but it's easily quite feasible that your Gt Uncle could have been commissioned for WW2.

Just because he was an infantry JNCO prewar means nothing. He could have been anything in civilian life before enlistingto his local Regiment.

The Royal Engineers had and still have Jacks of all trades. He could have been an demolition or explosives expert, bridge builder, pontoon expert, or a diver, a driver or a Postman... The list goes on.

Many people join[ed] the infantry as other ranks for many varied a reason, not all infantry OR's are thick.

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Definately not RE. The collar badges are Infantry - York and Lancaster Regiment I believe but I stand to be corrected. He is a LCpl in the picture by the way.
Alan

Collar badges are to the York and Lancaster regiment 100%

[mikerace]

Hi, i have a hi-res image of the grave and it is deffinately him.

Also according to another thread, the yorkshire and lancashire regiments were taken over by the RE.

This would explain why his grave says RE

[Alan O]

The Y&L were definately not taken over by the RE. One possibility is that one of its TF Bns was re-roled to Engineers in the TF reorg of 1937. But the Y&L were infantry until 1968. He may have transferred on Commissioning. The Re was a big Corps and had lots of jobs even for non engineering officers.

Alan

[Peter Brydon]

According to Westlake ( The Territorial Battalions ) The York and Lancaster Regt had 3 territorial battalions.

The Hallamshire Battalion remained as infantry,The 5th Bn was converted and transfered in 1936 but to R.A. ( Not R.E. )

The 6th Battalion was formed in 1939 as a duplicate of the Hallamshire Battalion.

( confirmed by Lichfield in "The Territorial Artillery 1908-1988 )

P.B.

[Alan O]

Thank you Peter. If it him in the photograph, he must have transferred to the RE.

Alan

[DougSA]

Hello Mike

According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (can look at www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour), Captain Walter Stubbs Race, 235273, Royal Engineers, died on 4th February 1945, and is buried in Buchanan Churchyard Extension.

According to the London Gazette (can look at www.gazette-online.co.uk) he was promoted from (officer) Cadet to be 2nd Lieutenant, 235273, RE, on 23rd May 1942. Unfortunately, it does not indicate any previous unit.

You may of course be able to find something out via the regimental museum for the Yorks & Lancs Regt. They may perhaps hold battalion nominal rolls or enrolment registers, which may indicate his being sent for officer training?

Best regards

Douglas

[mikerace]

Hi Doug thank for the Info, this is really helpful, I have also been in touch with a relative.

Here is Walters History

Walter enlisted in the regular army, Yorkshire & Lancashire Regiment, 19th Sept. 1922.
Embarked for Germany 15th March 1923. British Army of Occupation.
Returned to UK 18th January 1926.
He left the army on 18th Nov. 1929.

Somehow he got involved in the evacuation of Dunkirk when he and a friend got a small boat to pick up soldiers escaping from France. His friend I know was shot in the arm, but they made it back to Dover.

Re-enlisted 14th Sept. 1940 Yorkshire & Lancashire Regiment.
( At about this time, the Yorks & Lancs were absorbed into the Royal Engineers )


Walter was injured in North Africa. He was shot in the face and had plastic surgery and skin grafts. However, by the time he returned to England, much of this injury had healed, but of course he had a pronouced scar across his cheek. He was awarded the Military Cross about this time.
He spoke both Germany and Arabic fluently, so doubtless this skill was of considerable use in North Africa.

He returned to England early 1944, and trained as a glider pilot. On D-day, he flew gliders carrying airborne commandos into Caen, France. He must have been one of the very few pilots to survive that exercise.

Later in 1944, he returned to UK, and was sent to Scotland. Later he died in the then, military hospital at Buchanan. The cause of death was cancer not war wounds.

[DougSA]

Hi Mike

My grandfather served with the Glider Pilot Regt from the Autumn of 1942 until Spring 1946! He did not take part in D-Day, as he was helping with preparation of US Airborne forces at various USAAF stations at that time. However, he went on the Arnhem operation in September 1944. Fortunately, he survived, ecaped back across the River Rhine and served out the rest of his time in the UK.

If you want to find out more about your uncle's service, you might want to try writing to the Glider Pilot Regt Assoc, to have an appeal for information published in their quarterly magazine. It is an excellent magazine and the assosication is remarkably active - given a strong sense of 'esprit de corps' among veterans.

Unfortunately, I have not come across your uncle's name before in connection with the Glider Pilot Regt, so cannot add anything on that front.

Best regards

Douglas

[mikerace]

Also my Grandfather and other relitaves seem to think he was promoted to Major after his death? Does any one know how i may be able to find this out?

here is another picture of walter, could anyone tell me what rank he is here?