Royal Devonshire OR Arm badge

[Voltigeur]

Hello all gentlemen, I have this badge and I can't make make up my mind as to what it is. Could it be the Royal Devonshire (really not sure about this...) or having compared it with davec2's album (he says: arm badge 15th/19th Hussars) and wright241's album (he says: arm badge Royal Dragoon).

So gentlemen, which is it, an answer of some sort will be greatly appreciated.

http://www.militaria.qc.ca/jo1.jpg

http://www.militaria.qc.ca/jo2.jpg

Jo

[GriffMJ]

Hi Jo

NCO Arm badge = 1st (Royal) Dragoons or 15th Hussars post 1920 (White metal), both Regiments used the same badge.... no difference.

The OSD looking badge looks like a horse furniture badge (four tangs, 3 missing), possibly an ear boss badge with a missing leather roundal?

The White Metal collar badge I have seen advertised as Norfolk Yeomanry (not sure if that is correct though)? See this link ----> http://www.alliedandaxismilitaria.co...h=50962&phqu=2

[Voltigeur]

Thank you Griff....that is fast (my coffee is not even ready yet....)

Cheers
Jo

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

Thank you Griff....that is fast (my coffee is not even ready yet....)

Cheers
Jo

Enjoy the coffee

[GriffMJ]

Hi Jo

ref the collar:-
Royal West Kent Yeomanry

[Malcolm Davey]

[QUOTE=GriffMJ;104918]Hi Jo

NCO Arm badge = 1st (Royal) Dragoons or 15th Hussars post 1920 (White metal), both Regiments used the same badge.... no difference.

Are you sure about that Griff, did'nt the 1st (Royal) Dragoons lion have a gap between the front legs, and the 15th hussars not.

Malc

[grey_green_acorn]

The R.W.KENT shoulder title is to the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment (Infantry) and is Westlake 1247.

Likewise the lion over crown collar dogs are more likely QORWK although unusual in white metal? Perhaps also the button?

Was there ever a Royal West Kent Yeomanry?

[davec2]

[quote=joachim;104978]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Hi Jo

NCO Arm badge = 1st (Royal) Dragoons or 15th Hussars post 1920 (White metal), both Regiments used the same badge.... no difference.

Are you sure about that Griff, did'nt the 1st (Royal) Dragoons lion have a gap between the front legs, and the 15th hussar not.

Malc

You are correct Malc,

I have spoken about this with both David and Gordon, if you believe the reference books and my faith is fast waning, the 1st Dragoons without the gap in the front legs was hallmarked silver, the white metal version had gaps between the front legs and the Lions' crown is voided.

The 15/19H, in Linaker & Dine shows two white metal versions, one with voided front legs and crown and one without a gap and without a void in the crown, as far as I am concerned, the badge in my album is to the 15/19H.

In this instance Griff, I think you are wrong to say that there is not a difference when there plainly is........

Dave.

[davec2]

Further to my comments, below are two images from the Linaker & Dine book, page 120..........................one is Malc's, the second is mine.....spooky

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Hi Both

I took what L&D show in the back of their book, with joint orders by the 1RD & 15th Hussars for the same items. They also state that arm badges were taken into central stores and drawn on by both Regiments (the same stock)..... there is no indication that the Royal Crest Arm badge was differenced in production? Can someone point out the diferences between a 1RD & a 15th Hussar Arm badge in my 1st (Royal) Dragoons thread in the Cavalry section please

[davec2]

Hi Griff,

Let us not forget that at no time have I referred to the 15H, I am talking about 15/19H, as far as I am concerned, L & D show several variations of the Royal Crest as an arm badge and I have adequately described the differences as I see them, why you are referring to the 15H, in this case, I don't know nor understand.

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hi Griff,

Let us not forget that at no time have I referred to the 15H, I am talking about 15/19H, as far as I am concerned, L & D show several variations of the Royal Crest as an arm badge and I have adequately described the differences as I see them, why you are referring to the 15H, in this case, I don't know nor understand.

Dave.

Dave

The Same Royal Crest Arm Badge is used by the 15th Hussars see page 120 fig 37.2 -15H

The 19th Hussars had the elephant arm badge see page 121

So the QVC and kings Crown Crest was worn by both the 1RD & 15th Hussars and then by the 15th/19th.

15/19 is the amalgamated Regiment - had the Royal crest again because the 15th were the senior line regiment of Cavalry

I think the only differences in the Arm badges was the backing cloth..... 1RD = Black , 15th H = (none, I think?), 15th/19th H = Scarlet

The 15th Hussars wore the Royal Crest as an Arm badge before the 1RD were allowed to I think? - L&D is an excellent book, I really enjoyed reading it.

BTW, take a look at pages 153-5 and read through the Bent & Parker Quotation book 1903-16..... also take a look through the 1930 "Stock of Arm Badges" on page 156.

Also...... if you look in David's (Wright241) Cavalry album you will see a Bent & Parker 1906 HM KC Arm badge that was on a "Joint" order by the 1RD & 15th H - envy ....get thee behind me

[davec2]

Cheers Griff,

I do appreciate the work you do but please clarify your point that there are no differences between the badges, I acknowledge the fact that historically and particularly with military history, I am lacking but I can read and I can look at pictures and despite my obvious shortcomings, I am reasonably academic.

So, once again, please humour me...

This thread was started by Jo asking why David described his badge as being to the Royals and I described my own badge as being to the 15/19 Hussars, I am sure that I have got that right.

Several posts were added before I came on and related to a telephone conversation that I had, not too long ago, with David re the differences between his badge and mine ( you say that there are none ) ?

Having proved that no book is infallable, I am still using L.& D. as my refernce, page 32, The Royals, plate 3.2 shows two versions, the first is hallmarked silver and the second has a gap between the lions' front legs and the lion's crown is voided, so for a start, that example is different to mine.

For whatever reason and I don't understand why, you introduced the 15H into the thread ? the original question was the difference in David's description and mine ?? so we go to page 120 where L.& D. show two Victorian versions, plate 37.1, these obviously don't apply to either David's badge or my own but you do mention plate37.2.

I know you are a keen Falconer but you must have the eyes of a Hawk to accurately state what exactly, the arm badge is in that image, I certainly can't, either with a glass or my PC, has the lion got a gap between it's legs ??

Lastly we go to page 124, plate 39.1 where two more Royal Crests are shown, both white metal, left, A, the lion has a gap between it's front legs and it's crown is voided, on the right, B, is the version that I believe is mine, ie, no gap between the lion's legs and no voiding in the lion's crown.

Having said/written all this, we now know that L.& D. has mistakes as proved earlier when Malcolm and I were calling each other everything under the sun because I was swearing that plate 37.1 on page 120 showed two Victorian badges and Malcolm thought I had lost the plot because in his copy, the badge on the right has a Tudor crown.

To sum up, the post is about why David and I had different descriptions for our badges, my initial reply explained why, the answer is because they are different badges, you say they aren't, well, if I cannot believe my own eyes, where on earth do we go from here.

My badge is different to the one in David's album and it is different to the one shown by Jo, I defy you to tell me after all this, that there is no difference and that they are all the same.

Phew, my glass is empty so I'm off........

Dave.

To make it easier to compare, I'm showing my badge........

[GriffMJ]

Hi Dave

The short answer is, you show what "significant" & "Regimental" differences there is in the Royal Crests? makers differences there might be..... but "Regimental"..... I dont think so.

I have the same NCO Arm badge as you have......... put a black backing on it and its Royal Dragoons.... put a red one on it and its a 15th/19th H

[davec2]

Griff,

I give in, I've lost the will to live

I do not accept that makers variations are the reason for L.& D. showing images of different badges, too coincidental and too " wrapped up "for my liking, an old and well used excuse, put a black backing on and it's the Royals, yes, if it has voided legs and crown, two different dies, for two different badges, in my opinion of course, I disagree with you and we will, I think, agree to disagree.

I admit that I'm not an expert but I don't want to be fobbed off all the time by so called experts either..........

My badge is different to Jo's, end of story.

All the best.

Dave.

PS, Anybody want to buy a few arm badges, I'm fast losing interest !!!