General Service badge cWW1?

[Donny B.]

Well they certainly leaped out at me that time. I could darn near read the buttons!.

I am always amazed that some of those old photos are so incredibly clear.

Donny B

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Yes ORs GS badge also worn by VTC and Labour Corps.

Leicester V.R.JPG
A member of Leicestershire Volunteer Regiment with G.S. cap badge and white woven s/t "V/LEICESTERSHIRE".

Actually not worn by the VTC at all, but by the Volunteer Force. The VTC were ad-hoc Corps created throughout Great Britain by individuals, committee's etc, which were not supported by the War Office. As such they wore their own badges, which by W.O. authority had to designed so as to not reflect units then in existence.

The War Office didn't recognise them until 1916, when as the Volunteer Force, Volunteer Regiments were created and the "Royal Arms" cap badge adopted. This continued until 1918, when all of the battalions in these Volunteer Regt's and the Corps, were redesignated "Volunteer Battalions" or just "Volunteers" in the case of Corps.

These are not to confused with the V.B.'s/Volunteer's, which disappeared into the the Territorial Force in April 1908.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Donny,
This might be a bit clearer.

P.B.

Interesting to note that the RSM is wearing and overseas service chevron and one of the officers two wound stripes, therefore must be attached personnel.

[LONGSHANKS]

Griff, am I missing something, but should there be an image in your first post.

Simon.

[ncc]

Originally Posted by Graham Stewart

Attachment 50790
A member of Leicestershire Volunteer Regiment with G.S. cap badge and white woven s/t "V/LEICESTERSHIRE".

Actually not worn by the VTC at all, but by the Volunteer Force. The VTC were ad-hoc Corps created throughout Great Britain by individuals, committee's etc, which were not supported by the War Office. As such they wore their own badges, which by W.O. authority had to designed so as to not reflect units then in existence.

The War Office didn't recognise them until 1916, when as the Volunteer Force, Volunteer Regiments were created and the "Royal Arms" cap badge adopted. This continued until 1918, when all of the battalions in these Volunteer Regt's and the Corps, were redesignated "Volunteer Battalions" or just "Volunteers" in the case of Corps.



These are not to confused with the V.B.'s/Volunteer's, which disappeared into the the Territorial Force in April 1908.

how do you know he is leicester volunteer regiment? it was 'leicester' and not 'leicestershire' so not to be confused with the regulars.so its either late 1918 when the volunteer regiments became a vol battalion of the regulars ,and he is wearing an '02 1st vb tunic or its a photographers stock kit.the lvr had their own distinct privately made uniform ,cap badge and shoulder titles, or's included.
is there a date on the pic?
Bob

[REMEVMBEA1]

It may be my eyes but I would have assumed that the non-King's badges were manchester regiment not GSC

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by ncc

how do you know he is leicester volunteer regiment? it was 'leicester' and not 'leicestershire' so not to be confused with the regulars.so its either late 1918 when the volunteer regiments became a vol battalion of the regulars ,and he is wearing an '02 1st vb tunic or its a photographers stock kit.the lvr had their own distinct privately made uniform ,cap badge and shoulder titles, or's included.
is there a date on the pic?
Bob

For a kick off I wrote one of the most comprehensive articles on the VTC/Volunteer Force years ago and have a large collection of VTC/Volunteer Force photo's and the Order of Battle for the VTC/Volunteer Force, Copies of Regulations for the Volunteer Training Corps and copies of the Volunteer List. Plus paperwork to Volunteer members who uniquely had their own
regimental numbering system. In July 1918 under the Volunteer Act all of these battalions were redesignated "Volunteer Battalions".

All of this, for those not familiar with the history of the British Army and it's Reserve Forces can also be found in both Army Council Instructions and Army Orders. As well as the VTC Gazette & Volunteer Force GazetteIt's. It's a subject I specialise in, so I know a 1916-1918 Volunteerr when I see one. By the end of 1916 the grey/green uniform of the VTC was being replaced in the Volunteer Force by regular pattern uniforms.

On the 10th October 1916 - the Directory of the Volunteer Force produced by the War Office had these battalions serving in the "LEICESTERSHIRE VOLUNTEER REGIMENT";-
1sr(Leicester)Bn, L.V.R.
2nd(Loughborough)Bn, L.V.R.
3rd(Market Harborough & Melton Mowbray)Bn, L.V.R.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

It may be my eyes but I would have assumed that the non-King's badges were manchester regiment not GSC

Trust me mate this ain't no Manchester Regt cap badge it's the "Royal Arms"(G.S.) cap badge, which is a dead give away with both these and the Labour Corps.

[Graham Stewart]

For those interested;-

Army Council Instruction 1936 of October 1916 - Volunteer Force Order XX
Badges of rank, cap badges and shoulder titles;-
The badges of rank to be worn by Officers and other ranks of the Volunteer Force will be the same as those approved by the Regular Army.
(2) The cap badge to be worn by the Volunteer Officers and Volunteer will be the Royal Arms. Officers will wear a "V" in place of the collar badge.
(3) The shoulder title will consist of the name of the "Lieutenancy" in which the Corps is raised surmounted by a 'V', thus "V/KENT". No numeral or other distinctive designation will be added. The badges will be woven and not made of metal.
9/V.F./53(T.F.2)

[ncc]

Originally Posted by Graham Stewart

For those interested;-

Army Council Instruction 1936 of October 1916 - Volunteer Force Order XX
Badges of rank, cap badges and shoulder titles;-
The badges of rank to be worn by Officers and other ranks of the Volunteer Force will be the same as those approved by the Regular Army.
(2) The cap badge to be worn by the Volunteer Officers and Volunteer will be the Royal Arms. Officers will wear a "V" in place of the collar badge.
(3) The shoulder title will consist of the name of the "Lieutenancy" in which the Corps is raised surmounted by a 'V', thus "V/KENT". No numeral or other distinctive designation will be added. The badges will be woven and not made of metal.
9/V.F./53(T.F.2)

it might say that but i have photographs of every battalion,corps and section and pet dog of the lvr 1916/17 and none of them are wearing that cap,tunic badge or shoulder title .
Bob

[Graham Stewart]

In April 1917 a further Instruction was added;-

A.C.I. 580 – Volunteer Force Order No.LIV – April 1917
Clothing of Volunteers – Further Instructions.
(1) Supply of “Serge Volunteer Force” – With reference to para.2 of V.F.O., No.XLV (A.C.I. 308 of 1917), indents for cloth of the special pattern “Serge Volunteer Force” may now be put forward by Territorial Force Associations to the Royal Army Clothing Department, Pimlico. In view of the present restricted supply of this cloth, T.F.A.’s should use the utmost care to limit their indents to known immediate requirements.
(2) Badges, & c. on Volunteer uniforms – With reference to V.F.O. No.XX (A.C.I. 1936 of 1916) the following further particulars are notified with regard to the badges, & c., to be worn on the uniforms of Volunteer Officers and Volunteers.
Officers
Cap Badge – The Royal Arms in Bronze.
Badges of Rank – The same as those worn by Officers of the Regular Army. Badges
on the cuffs will be embroided, badge on the shoulder strap of the great coat will
be of gilded metal.
Collar Badges – The letter “V” in bronze.
Buttons – Universal pattern in gilding metal or leather, with the Royal Arms as the
device.
Non-Commissioned Officer & Men.
Cap badge – The Royal Arms in gilding metal
Shoulder Titles – As in para.3 of A.C.I. 1936 of 1916. The embroidery will be white.
Chevrons & Badges of Rank – The same as those worn by the N.C.O.’s & men of the
Regular Army.
Buttons - Universal pattern in gilding metal or leather, with the Royal Arms as the
device.
99/114(T.F.2)

[Graham Stewart]

Hinckley V.T.C..jpg

As an added interest - a member of Hinckley V.T.C.(Leicestershire), with his three son's wearing the grey/green uniform, with a unique darker cap band and shoulder straps, not seen with other VTC units. He also wear the VTC marksmans badge on his lower right cuff. Interesting to note that his son's are uniformed as 'Territorial's and therefore may be T.F. Cadets, two of which carry no "Hindoostan" on their cap badges

[Graham Stewart]

WRVR.jpg

Better image of the G.S. cap badge and woven white worsted shoulder title "V/W.RIDING" combined by a member of the West Riding Volunteer Regiment.

[ncc]

you can quote all the orders you can find,but it dosen't change the the fact at least in leicester ,up until late 1917 nobody was taking any notice of them and the lvr wore their own unique uniform and badges.
if they wore the v leic. as your photo suggests they did. it would have been july 1918 until the end of hostilities.when as part of the regulars they would have had to tow the line. probably why one of the s/t's has not turned up yet and their bronze badges turn up quite regularly.
thats why i wondered if the photo was dated.
Bob

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by ncc

you can quote all the orders you can find,but it dosen't change the the fact at least in leicester ,up until late 1917 nobody was taking any notice of them and the lvr wore their own unique uniform and badges.
if they wore the v leic. as your photo suggests they did. it would have been july 1918 until the end of hostilities.when as part of the regulars they would have had to tow the line. probably why one of the s/t's has not turned up yet and their bronze badges turn up quite regularly.
thats why i wondered if the photo was dated.
Bob

Stick your photo's on and lets have a look. If what you say is correct then Leicester Volunteer Regiment must be the only one in the UK, that didn't comply, which I still doubt considering what the War Office required. The photo isn't dated and I wish I had it here to blow up the title for you.

I have photo of 3rd V.B., N.F. taken 1918 wearing the NF capbdge, but the shoulder title reads "V/NORTHUMBERLAND". A lot of V.F. photo's clearly show changes from one to the other, as in the photo show in the original post here and even by 1918, you can see the varying shades in their dress, while some wear GS badges and others those of a regular pattern, which is based on supply.