Prince of Wales's Own Donegal Militia: Questions about valuation & veracity

[luckysh0t]

http://www.jcmilitaria.com/badges_in...t=10&Offset=10

I appreciate there's a limit to what can be done on the internet but can someone possibly judge is this badge legit and is there by any chance a Stanley Gibbons of the badge world that would produce something like a valuation catalog?

For instance £250 seems pretty pricey but are the likes of these Irish badges probably fakes then?

http://www.glamorganantiques.co.uk/capbadges2.htm

[John Mulcahy]

In my own personal view the badges sold by Glamorgan antiques are fakes.

Many of the Irish Militia regiments glengarry badges have been reproduced including the The Prince of Wales Own Donegal Militia,

The badge itself (if it was issued) did not have a long service life. As of the period March-Nov. 1876 the regiment had not yet been issued the glengarry (source; Reports from Commissioners, Volume 18 Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons 1877 appendix II p 473) and of course in the early 1880's they were re-badged Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.

There is no third party valuation of British Military Badges that I know of - your best gauge of value is to review catalogs and lists of reputable dealers. Ignore the likes of Glamorgan Antiques except to see what is being faked.

With regard to the JC Militaria item. The price asked is not unusual for the likes of this item. I cannot be certain of the authenticity of this, the strike looks reasonable to me compared to the likes sold by Bosleys. The patina looks very modern to me - whether because of excessive cleaning or not I cannot reliably say.

John

[badgecollector]

totally agree with john re Glamorgan Antiques.
as regard to prices i often here people saying or complaining regarding the price.
my thoughts are if you can buy it cheaper somewhere else, then do so. having said this, the more expensive items are generally the rarer and cant be found somewhere else, therefore the hefty price.
i often pay what i consider over the top for items because i cant find them anywhere else and/or have been chasing a particular item for years. what i consider over the top the next collector may think its the going price.
price guides in books are just that. guides, which in the end mean nothing. if the item is hard to find and or rare then expect it to be pricey especially from a dealer.
now, for the dealers. they can ask what they like. the same rule applies as above. if i cant get it cheaper somewhere else then i will pay the price. but for mine, the beauty about the dealers is that they generally can source better items and more of them as this is their business and i have found the asking price is more often the starting price and with a little negotiation (discount or trade or part trade) most items can be yours at a reduced cost.
my advise is, if this badge is genuine and you cant find it anywhere else and don't want to wait another 10years for another to turn up, then buy it
hope this is of interest
bc

[Frank Kelley]

Certainly a view people will share!

Item IR3 "Superb glengarry of the great Connaught Rangers dated 1850 approx. Queen Victoria crown all solid brass £25 GB Pounds back in stock"

[QUOTE=John Mulcahy;314420]In my own personal view the badges sold by Glamorgan antiques are fakes.

[luckysh0t]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

In my own personal view the badges sold by Glamorgan antiques are fakes.

Many of the Irish Militia regiments glengarry badges have been reproduced including the The Prince of Wales Own Donegal Militia,

The badge itself (if it was issued) did not have a long service life. As of the period March-Nov. 1876 the regiment had not yet been issued the glengarry (source; Reports from Commissioners, Volume 18 Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons 1877 appendix II p 473) and of course in the early 1880's they were re-badged Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.

There is no third party valuation of British Military Badges that I know of - your best gauge of value is to review catalogs and lists of reputable dealers. Ignore the likes of Glamorgan Antiques except to see what is being faked.

With regard to the JC Militaria item. The price asked is not unusual for the likes of this item. I cannot be certain of the authenticity of this, the strike looks reasonable to me compared to the likes sold by Bosleys. The patina looks very modern to me - whether because of excessive cleaning or not I cannot reliably say.

John

Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge. Out of interest how do you browse that parliament doc you quote from? Near as I can get is the google books link here https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...involume&q=473 I see parliament.uk has an archive but I'm not sure where to go there if indeed it is digitised.

Has anyone purchased from JC Militaria before, would you describe them as experts in terms of identifying the real deal? It's a lot of money & from John's post it seems badges from this particular militia would be rare enough so I'd want peace of mind.

[luckysh0t]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

With regard to the JC Militaria item. The price asked is not unusual for the likes of this item. I cannot be certain of the authenticity of this, the strike looks reasonable to me compared to the likes sold by Bosleys. The patina looks very modern to me - whether because of excessive cleaning or not I cannot reliably say.

John

Also John when you say the strike looks reasonable do you mean they normally aren't in that good a condition or it could be too good to be true?

[mule-73k]

Glamorgan is to be avoided, in my option.

The Donegal is heavily reproduced and this one looks, from the photo, to be very clean and in need of handling to make an informed decision! The prices being asked reflects the rarity of finding good ones.

Dave

[luckysh0t]

Originally Posted by mule-73k

The Donegal is heavily reproduced and this one looks, from the photo, to be very clean and in need of handling to make an informed decision! The prices being asked reflects the rarity of finding good ones.

Dave

Thanks, so reading between the lines then you have seen genuine Donegal badges, ie the thing exists?

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by luckysh0t

Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge. Out of interest how do you browse that parliament doc you quote from? Near as I can get is the google books link here https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...involume&q=473 I see parliament.uk has an archive but I'm not sure where to go there if indeed it is digitised.

Has anyone purchased from JC Militaria before, would you describe them as experts in terms of identifying the real deal? It's a lot of money & from John's post it seems badges from this particular militia would be rare enough so I'd want peace of mind.

That is the link , it looks like you may have posted a snippet view, the entire document can be downloaded (at least it can here in the US) at the link below.


The pdf attached are my own notes from this document with regard to the headdress worn at the time and the responses to two of the 34 questions in the questionnaires if of interest to you. The questionnaire was sent to the regiments on Aug 1 1876. I have paraphrased the answers.

Unfortunately p497 which has listed all the facings of the Irish Militia regiments at the time was folded over when scanned and thus is not usable.



John


https://books.google.com/books?id=mz...ritish&f=false

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by luckysh0t

Also John when you say the strike looks reasonable do you mean they normally aren't in that good a condition or it could be too good to be true?

I mean that the strike looks of the same (higher) quality as those sold previously by Bosleys . The ones sold by sellers that regularly sell fakes look less crisp.

[luckysh0t]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

I mean that the strike looks of the same (higher) quality as those sold previously by Bosleys . The ones sold by sellers that regularly sell fakes look less crisp.

Ok so that's a good sign. It's a pity the guy doesn't have a bricks n' mortar store - kind of makes me a bit more wary.

Thanks for the pdf attachment - not available online in UK FYI.

Has anyone seen the Donegal badge in the flesh and so can verify it's existence?

[John Mulcahy]

[QUOTE=luckysh0t;314756]Ok so that's a good sign. It's a pity the guy doesn't have a bricks n' mortar store - kind of makes me a bit more wary.

Thanks for the pdf attachment - not available online in UK FYI.

I thought so, if you are interested in the full report and wish to PM me your e-mail details I shall send it to you.

John

[mule-73k]

Originally Posted by luckysh0t

Thanks, so reading between the lines then you have seen genuine Donegal badges, ie the thing exists?

They do indeed exist!

Dave

[John Mulcahy]

On a recent visit to the National Archives I noted in the RACD List of Changes WO350 vol 2 page 411 that, The Glengarry Badge for the Donegal Militia was approved on May 4th 1875 in WHITE METAL.

John