Identifying authentic and WW1 Private correct cap badge - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

CoRifleman · #1 25-08-23, 11:15 PM

In searching for an authentic London Scots badge for a soldier display, I'm seeing a handful of styles.

I'm trying to find a WW1 era, correct for a Private, London Scots cap badge.

I found a thread on the net where a couple things were mentioned... one, an older badge was found in the earth and dug up over on the great war forum - so I tried to find badges that somewhat were similar in detail to the dug item, as I was sure (I suppose) that it was a quite old example. I also found mention where a poster said WW1 era would be pin clasp style, not two lugs, loops or eyes. I haven't been able to corroborate that anywhere else.

As an example, here are a handful that I'm looking at... how on the Lords green earth would I go about ensuring any one is correct for the timeframe that I'm looking for? Would anyone be able to offer advice or pointers here?

WW1 14th Battalion, The London Scottish Regiment Cap Badge - PIN MECHANISM | eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256028637956

Pin clasp and good detail - although I have contacted the seller to inquire if that is a scratch or break through the middle of the lions tail.

WW1 London Scottish Regiment Cap Badge WM 2 Lugs Original/Genuine | eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166203738520

This one looks rather crude around the tail, as well as having lugs at the top and bottom. For a belt instead? Badge looks like a matte silver tone.

WW1 London Scottish Cap Badge White Metal 2 Lugs Antique Org | eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325780870471

Obviously a darker color, but good detail to badge. Two lug design, horizontal. Discoloration front and back.

LONDON SCOTTISH REGIMENT CAP BADGE IN WHITE METAL PIN FITTING GENUINE WW1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364299694086

Lighter color - almost silverish? But detail work on the badge looks "soft" and there looks to be an area on the mane that is pitted. Clasp pin design.

London Scottish cap badge | eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144795608576

Various discoloration, this one listed as a nickel badge. Thistles are very prominent on this one, and deep detail on lion. Horizontal lug design.

Original 14th Battalion, The London Scottish Regiment Cap Badge | eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256158123651

Darker - but even - color again, horizontal twin lug. A lot of texture to banners and lion body.

LONDON SCOTTISH REGIMENT CAP BADGE IN WHITE METAL ON LUGS GENUINE | eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364272142532

This one looks quite bright, almost brass/goldish. Some softness to the detail. Twin horizontal lugs.

Alan O · #2 26-08-23, 07:12 AM

OK -

1. Genuine and early.
2. Not a cap badge.
3. Repro.
4. Replaced pin.
5. Repro.
6. Looks OK but not that old.
7. As above.

The badge was worn from 1908 up to a few years ago and the a/a issued one was often replaced by a metal bought one. It's a common badge and many variants exist.

Phil2M · #3 26-08-23, 07:39 AM

2. Sporran badge

magpie · #4 26-08-23, 08:51 AM

Personally I wouldn't go for No1 either, go for one with a thicker steel pin that's perhaps a bit stained or may have signs of rust, but there are also plenty without.

CoRifleman · #5 26-08-23, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan O

OK -

1. Genuine and early.
2. Not a cap badge.
3. Repro.
4. Replaced pin.
5. Repro.
6. Looks OK but not that old.
7. As above.

The badge was worn from 1908 up to a few years ago and the a/a issued one was often replaced by a metal bought one. It's a common badge and many variants exist.

Thank you - I'll use the guide of repro vs orig and see if I can't pick some common themes. Pin #1 was one I found more recently and think that I like the best - although pin #4 (despite the replaced pin) had a great look of aging to it to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil2M

2. Sporran badge

I think that's what my research had pointed me to - but I kept mixing the word tartan and sporran and didn't want to mis-type - had a mental block on the correct word and kept thinking tartan. Our last name is Maxwell, I'm aware of the difference but couldn't remember the right word!

Quote:

Originally Posted by magpie

Personally I wouldn't go for No1 either, go for one with a thicker steel pin that's perhaps a bit stained or may have signs of rust, but there are also plenty without.

I picked up a Scots Guards badge with a pin that style that I like very much - I'm not seeing any London Scots badges quite the same but will keep an eye. I do like #1 & #4 as noted above.

Anecdotally, I'm also searching for a Berks Yeomanry badge, and I had found one I liked - but my research here led me to understand the B-Ham makers stamp dated the badge to the mid 1960's or newer, so it's back to the drawing board on that one.

manchesters · #6 26-08-23, 03:50 PM

Try not to buy badges off ebay unless you know what you are doing as you will get ripped off 95% of the time.

Some of us who sell on ebay can be trusted but generally those sellers that advertise hundreds of badges are selling fakes.

Try to buy from dealers with specialised badge websites and if in doubt ask here, like you are doing, about the dealer.

regards

Alan O · #7 26-08-23, 04:13 PM

Berks Yeo are rare badges because they only wore them from 1908-20. They then adopted RA gun badges. Circa 1944 one of the RA Btys bearing the BY name re-adopted the horse badge but post WW2 they amalgamated and the badge was no more.

Widely faked to a high standard but the Gaunt Bham marked ones are 1970's repros.

wardog · #8 26-08-23, 04:22 PM

Go for a pin, and a void under S Africa 1900-02. Also sharp, pointed thistle leaves (good detail). My great uncle was 2/14th-London Scottish in 1918. Regards, Paul.

CoRifleman · #9 26-08-23, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters

Try not to buy badges off ebay unless you know what you are doing as you will get ripped off 95% of the time.

Some of us who sell on ebay can be trusted but generally those sellers that advertise hundreds of badges are selling fakes.

Try to buy from dealers with specialised badge websites and if in doubt ask here, like you are doing, about the dealer.

regards

The #1 badge was listed by a dealer named WarBadges. I searched his history for duplicates (hopefully an indicator of fakes) but didn't find many in where I was looking. I also purchased a Gordon Highlanders badge from him that I liked the detail and look of compared to other, thinner strikes I found elsewhere.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256189064486

I tried to stay away from non-commercial type sellers that said things like "I'm selling off a collection" or "I'm not an expert, but I think this is original..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan O

Berks Yeo are rare badges because they only wore them from 1908-20. They then adopted RA gun badges. Circa 1944 one of the RA Btys bearing the BY name re-adopted the horse badge but post WW2 they amalgamated and the badge was no more.

Widely faked to a high standard but the Gaunt Bham marked ones are 1970's repros.

Repros meaning a faithful reproduction? This is the one that stood out to me, but I do not have much to go on...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385374683486

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardog

Go for a pin, and a void under S Africa 1900-02. Also sharp, pointed thistle leaves (good detail). My great uncle was 2/14th-London Scottish in 1918. Regards, Paul.

Thank you for the insight and for sharing the history.

wardog · #10 26-08-23, 05:16 PM

I notice from time to time badges that look OK but have a fault directly under the London title- can it be confirmed if this is a manufactuers fault and OK? Regards, Paul.

cbuehler · #11 27-08-23, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters

Try not to buy badges off ebay unless you know what you are doing as you will get ripped off 95% of the time.

Some of us who sell on ebay can be trusted but generally those sellers that advertise hundreds of badges are selling fakes.

Try to buy from dealers with specialised badge websites and if in doubt ask here, like you are doing, about the dealer.

regards

I second this. E"p"ay is no longer the gold mine it once was.

CB

CoRifleman · #12 27-08-23, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbuehler

I second this. E"p"ay is no longer the gold mine it once was.

CB

Thank you, that's too bad!

wardog · #13 29-08-23, 06:45 AM

I would welcome comment on the fault on some London Scottish badges in post 10. Regards, Paul.

mtrpltpara · #14 29-08-23, 03:23 PM

Here is photo of a badge in my collection. The blue ribbon backing puzzled me (I was thinking Hodden grey) for years till I came across a ww1 London Scottish uniform for auction which had a khaki wool ToS and the badge with same blue backing. (There was also a glengarrie with the badge having the Hodden grey backing) My badge has the pin type fastening and touches of soldiers friend to the reverse.

CoRifleman · #15 29-08-23, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardog

I notice from time to time badges that look OK but have a fault directly under the London title- can it be confirmed if this is a manufactuers fault and OK? Regards, Paul.

Do you mean such as this one attached?

I see them either with a void there or filled in. Some of the filled in are pin style, some are lug. Some pin style are void in that area.

On the badge attached, the circled area looks like an error of sorts...