White metal SAS badge

[bess55]

Gents, can anyone confirm my suspicions that the attached is an officers collar badge with the Gilt over lays missing - hence the holes?

Any other observations welcome chaps.

Many thanks

Bess

[54Bty]

I would go along with that.

Marc

[pontecagnano]

I'd agree with Marc on that.

There are certainly examples of reversed colour collars with the flames and motto in silver and Excalibur in gold.

I have attached images of a pair of these that I have been told were worn by 21 SAS at the Golden Jubilee of the TA in 1958. No additional verification of that but it's an interesting suggestion to research further. They are of two piece riveted construction, with copper lugs, similar to the more conventional colour collars.

I have also attached an image of a single cast example. Possibly silver, although not marked, with Excalibur picked out in gilt. Does anyone have any additional information please?

Just to round things off, I've also attached an image of an all white metal cap badge (with brass slider). I think the slider is a good 'un, but much less sure about the badge soldered to the front! The quality of the scroll and motto lettering is poor. It's an unusual pattern however as it's one piece construction and all white metal. The only possibility I can think of, if original, is that it was worn on the 23 SAS field service cap.

I must also post some examples of my all brass SAS cap badges to your brass badge thread, when time permits, as I have a few interesting ones...

Best regards,

Graham

[Luke H]

Jones & Jason Ltd mark is fake. The exact same arial font is seen on a multitude of duff badges with numerous obscure and even bogus manufacturers and outfitters names.

[bess55]

Thank you Graham

[pontecagnano]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Jones & Jason Ltd mark is fake. The exact same arial font is seen on a multitude of duff badges with numerous obscure and even bogus manufacturers and outfitters names.

Most modern maker marked genuine badges use a similar san serif font and from a typographical perspective only the kerning varies. Some makers use wider spacing than others. IMO the presence of san serif font on the slider is not a reliable indicator that a badge is fake.

I stand by my comment that the slider is good as it's thick and very hard brass. The jury is out on the maker mark given the limited evidence for Jones & Jason as a badge manufacturer. There are a few threads regarding this on the Forum. There does seem to be some evidence that they manufactured badges for a while, in Birmingham, post WWII. The most common suspect marks on SAS and Parachute Regiment beret badges, other than anodised, seem to be the 15mm Gaunt with a dot (definitely one to avoid in my opinion), JR Gaunt, Jones & Jason, Smith and Wright, Grove Manufacturing and Marples & Beasley. I believe it's a matter of record that genuine brass sliders from some of the above makers have been purchased in bulk and creatively applied to fake badges.

For the record, I believe the SAS white metal beret badge illustrated is a fake, albeit a not particularly common one. In addition to the previously mentioned flaws, the slider is not in the right place and the brazing looks a little fresh.

Graham

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by pontecagnano

Most modern maker marked genuine badges use a similar san serif font and from a typographical perspective only the kerning varies. Some makers use wider spacing than others. IMO the presence of san serif font on the slider is not a reliable indicator that a badge is fake.

I stand by my comment that the slider is good as it's thick and very hard brass. The jury is out on the maker mark given the limited evidence for Jones & Jason as a badge manufacturer. There are a few threads regarding this on the Forum. There does seem to be some evidence that they manufactured badges for a while, in Birmingham, post WWII. The most common suspect marks on SAS and Parachute Regiment beret badges, other than anodised, seem to be the 15mm Gaunt with a dot (definitely one to avoid in my opinion), JR Gaunt, Jones & Jason, Smith and Wright, Grove Manufacturing and Marples & Beasley. I believe it's a matter of record that genuine brass sliders from some of the above makers have been purchased in bulk and creatively applied to fake badges.

For the record, I believe the SAS white metal beret badge illustrated is a fake, albeit a not particularly common one. In addition to the previously mentioned flaws, the slider is not in the right place and the brazing looks a little fresh.

Graham

It’s fake. The stable that mark is from are fakes. The style of lettering and always lacking full stops ‘.’ and underscores ‘_’ are indicative.

A strong brass slider does not a good badge (or good slider) make unfortunately.

Be interested to hear what evidence you have for Marples & Beasley making OR metal badges or marking brass sliders? Genuine Grove marks have a significantly different font to these fakes and has a full stop. Again please feel free to show a metal Smith and Wright marked brass slider with lettering of this style - I’ve never seen one.