Re-gilding of badges & buttons

[gwrco]

Hi all,
....does anyone know of anyone or anywhere (within the UK), who can do gilding on capbadges, collar dogs, and buttons please?
I'm assembling a 1stww period officers patrol dress uniform for a museum, and have all the necessary items, but am at a loss as to where to get them regilded! Can any member help ??

tim

[wright241]

Originally Posted by gwrco

Hi all,
....does anyone know of anyone or anywhere (within the UK), who can do gilding on capbadges, collar dogs, and buttons please?
I'm assembling a 1stww period officers patrol dress uniform for a museum, and have all the necessary items, but am at a loss as to where to get them regilded! Can any member help ??

tim

a) Have you tried an 'old fashioned' jeweller.
b) Traditional gilding/re-gilding is a 'bit' of a health hazzard.
c) Have you done a forum search yet - because there havbe been a number of posts about this. The tab for this is at the top of the page. You will have to use an advanced search. I found a few posts using this method.

[Jibba Jabba]

There is a chap on a well known auction web site who advertises the service. I haven't got a clue what sort of job he does.

I've tried asking around local jewelers, no one wants anything to do with gold plating. A service that 100 years ago used to be so common is now very rare probably because the dangerous chemicals required.

If I were you I would give the buttons a clean with a modern clear brass cleaning solution and just leave them how they are. Chances are the gilding loss is of the result of an over enthusiastic batman of the period.

[Peter Brydon]

Bernard Golding used to be able to get badges etc re gilded but I have not seen Bernard for some considerable time. Is anyone still in contact with him ?

P.B.

[davec2]

Hi Tim,

I have recently had a couple of badges re-gilded, one for a forum memeber, I had dropped a right clanger after undertaking a repair.

I have also had a badge re-gilded for my own ongoing project, see photo's, I personally think it a little expensive unless really necessary but I suppose cost is relative ?

The two I had done cost approximately £18.00p, you would need, I think, a jewellers workshop as opposed to a normal jeweller but if one did offer a repair service, they might also be able to have items re-gilded, I also think that the good old ' fire gilt ' finish is practically unattainable today but that's only my opinion !!

Steve's answer could solve your problem I think, have them bright polished but rather than leave them, clear lacquer after polishing, that might work, good luck.

Dave.

[Unknownsoldier]

My jeweller does gold plating etc. I have one of my rings regularly done by him (regularly, once a year... ), he's in Bromley, but generally any old skool jeweller should be able to get stuff gold plated, but proper gilt stuff in the old style is almost impossible due to H&S....

Tom

[davec2]

Hi Tom,

I'm by no means an expert but just by talking to my jeweller, gilding is still a process used in the jewellery trade ( see my previous post ), I've recently had two badges re-gilded.

My logic would also assume that the modern, Officer quality badges, described as silver, gilt and enamel would be silver, gold and enamel if they were gold plated as opposed to gilded, I may be wrong, I usually am but it's just my assumption of course

Dave.

[Unknownsoldier]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hi Tom,

I'm by no means an expert but just by talking to my jeweller, gilding is still a process used in the jewellery trade ( see my previous post ), I've recently had two badges re-gilded.

My logic would also assume that the modern, Officer quality badges, described as silver, gilt and enamel would be silver, gold and enamel if they were gold plated as opposed to gilded, I may be wrong, I usually am but it's just my assumption of course

Dave.

I believe now gilt is used interchangeably with plated as a sort of traditional thing, and that gilding proper is almost not doable now (well no cost effectively if you get my drift).

guessing we are discussing, chemical gilding here:

Chemical gilding

Chemical gilding embraces those processes in which the gold is at some stage of chemical combination. These include:

In this process the gold is obtained in a state of extremely fine division, and applied by mechanical means. Cold gilding on silver is performed by a solution of gold in aqua regia, applied by dipping a linen rag into the solution, burning it, and rubbing the black and heavy ashes on the silver with the finger or a piece of leather or cork.

Wet gilding is effected by means of a dilute solution of gold(III) chloride with twice its quantity of ether. The liquids are agitated and allowed to rest, when the ether separates and floats on the surface of the acid. The whole mixture is then poured into a funnel with a small aperture, and allowed to rest for some time, when the acid is run off and the ether separated. The ether will be found to have taken up all the gold from the acid, and may be used for gilding iron or steel, for which purpose the metal is polished with fine emery and spirits of wine. The ether is then applied with a small brush, and as it evaporates it deposits the gold, which can now be heated and polished. For small delicate figures, a pen or a fine brush may be used for laying on the ether solution.

Fire-gilding or Wash-gilding is a process by which an amalgam of gold is applied to metallic surfaces, the mercury being subsequently volatilized, leaving a film of gold or an amalgam containing from 13 to 16% of mercury. In the preparation of the amalgam the gold must first be reduced to thin plates or grains, which are heated red hot, and thrown into previously heated mercury, until it begins to smoke. Upon stirring the mercury with an iron rod, the gold totally disappears. The proportion of mercury to gold is generally six or eight to one. When the amalgam is cold it is squeezed through chamois leather to separate the superfluous mercury; the gold, with about twice its weight of mercury, remains behind, forming a yellowish silvery mass with the consistency of butter.

When the metal to be gilded is wrought or chased, it ought to be covered with mercury before the amalgam is applied, that this may be more easily spread; but when the surface of the metal is plain, the amalgam may be applied to it directly. When no such preparation is applied, the surface to be gilded is simply bitten and cleaned with nitric acid. A deposit of mercury is obtained on a metallic surface by means of quicksilver water, a solution of mercury(II) nitrate, the nitric acid attacking the metal to which it is applied, and thus leaving a film of free metallic mercury.

The amalgam being equally spread over the prepared surface of the metal, the mercury is then sublimed by a heat just sufficient for that purpose; for, if it is too great, part of the gold may be driven off, or it may run together and leave some of the surface of the metal bare. When the mercury has evaporated, which is known by the surface having entirely become of a dull yellow color, the metal must undergo other operations, by which the fine gold color is given to it. First, the gilded surface is rubbed with a scratch brush of brass wire, until its surface is smooth. It is then covered with gilding wax, and again exposed to fire until the wax is burnt off.

Gilding wax is composed of beeswax mixed with some of the following substances: red ochre, verdigris, copper scales, alum, vitriol, and borax. By this operation the color of the gilding is heightened, and the effect seems to be produced by a perfect dissipation of some mercury remaining after the former operation. The dissipation is well effected by this equable application of heat. The gilt surface is then covered over with potassium nitrate, alum or other salts, ground together, and mixed into a paste with water or weak ammonia. The piece of metal thus covered is exposed to heat, and then quenched in water.

By this method its color is further improved and brought nearer to that of gold, probably by removing any particles of copper that may have been on the gilt surface. This process, when skillfully carried out, produces gilding of great solidity and beauty, but owing to the exposure of the workmen to mercurial fumes, it is very unhealthy. There is also much loss of mercury to the atmosphere, which brings extremely serious environmental concerns as well.

This method of gilding metallic objects was formerly widespread, but fell into disuse as the dangers of mercury toxicity became known. Since fire-gilding requires that the mercury be volatilized to drive off the mercury and leave the gold behind on the surface, it is extremely dangerous. Breathing the fumes generated by this process can quickly result in serious health problems, such as neurological damage and endocrine disorders, since inhalation is a very efficient route for mercuric compounds to enter the body. This process has generally been supplanted by the electroplating of gold over a nickel substrate, which is more economical and less dangerous.

In depletion gilding, a subtractive process discovered in Pre-columbian Mesoamerica, articles are fabricated by various techniques from an alloy of copper and gold, named tumbaga by the Spaniards. The surface is etched with acids, resulting in a surface of porous gold. The porous surface is then burnished down, resulting in a shiny gold surface. The results fooled the conquistadors into thinking they had massive quantities of pure gold. The results startled modern archaeologists, because at first the pieces resemble electroplated articles.


Whereas, I'm talking of electro-gilding (or plating), this is what I'm thinking of, rather than using hazardous and volatile substances.

Not a jeweller either Dave, so I'm probably going mad somewhere along the line....

ATB,
Tom

[Peter Brydon]

Just a thought . On our favourite auction site you appear to be able to pick up sheets of gold leaf for £2-£3 ( for a number of sheets, not the individual price )

I wonder if it might be possible to use these to apply a gilded finish to the uniform buttons which were the original subject of this thread.

I think gold leaf is applied with a very soft hair brush like an artists paint brush but I dont know if it it could be used on a badge or button.

Anyone every tried this before ?

P.B.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Just a thought . On our favourite auction site you appear to be able to pick up sheets of gold leaf for £2-£3 ( for a number of sheets, not the individual price )

I wonder if it might be possible to use these to apply a gilded finish to the uniform buttons which were the original subject of this thread.

I think gold leaf is applied with a very soft hair brush like an artists paint brush but I dont know if it it could be used on a badge or button.

Anyone every tried this before ?

P.B.

PB,
You are correct about gold leaf. I still have some left from my days as a restorer (part time). The only problem is that you need to apply a fixing agent, then to get the leaf to adhere properly to the contouirs etc a (as you mentioned) a good quality soft but firm brush + some other tools. It then needs to be burnished - I used a red powder (can't remember the name) which is much finer than talc and is a real pig to use. Gold leaf works well with 'largish' objects but badges are another matter. I tried 'doing' a GG - as an experiment. Too many sharp corners and voided areas were a pig.
david

[davec2]

Hi Tom,

Please tell me you copied and pasted that little lot ?? I wouldn't have had the patience.......you are of course correct but my simple mind can only differentiate between gold plating as in plating in a high percentage of chemical gold and gilt-plating which as you say is more of an amalgam ( not with Mercury, I might add ).

The ' Fire Gilt ', I think is now impossible to achieve because of, as you pointed out, H. & S.

The only way I can describe the difference is in the simplest of terms, ie, gilding, whether you want to call it electro-plated gilt and gold-plate which to me is a different end result, does that make sense ??

Peter,

When I first realised that I had made a right cock-up of Davids collar badge, I looked at buying the gold leaf ( as you say, it's well advertised on ebay ), the cost with the base fixative and perhaps a very soft brush etc was pretty much the same as it cost me to have my badge......re-gilded.......sorry Tom, I have to call it that !!

When I first posed the question to my jeweller, he did say he could get the ' fire-gilt ' effect but as you can see, it was not the required efect, no problem for my badge because it was just a basic gilt finish in the first place but for David's collar, it was all wrong, basically, I would say yes, using gold leaf may well be Tim's solution to finishing his buttons etc.

That's it, I'm going to bore someone !!

Dave.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by wright241

PB,
The only problem is that you need to apply a fixing agent, then to get the leaf to adhere properly to the contouirs etc a (as you mentioned) a good quality soft but firm brush + some other tools.

David

Hi David

I use a bookbinders fixing agent called "B.S.Glaire" ........ you can buy it from Russells in Herts SG9 9RN. Great on leather...... not sure about badges

[wright241]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Hi David

I use a bookbinders fixing agent called "B.S.Glaire" ........ you can buy it from Russells in Herts SG9 9RN. Great on leather...... not sure about badges

Griff, Thanks. I still have a bottle (somewhere in one of my infamous 'T' chests), the name Glair rings a bell if its a white - dries clear, then its the same thing. Will have to have another 'trawl' through the chests again...... might even find some of the odd badges I seem to have mislaid......
david

[Unknownsoldier]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hi Tom,

Please tell me you copied and pasted that little lot ?? Yes Mate, this is the reference I was workign from as I'd love to get a couple of my badges redone, but would prefer the correct method, I think it gives it a deeper reddish look... I wouldn't have had the patience.......you are of course correct but my simple mind can only differentiate between gold plating as in plating in a high percentage of chemical gold and gilt-plating which as you say is more of an amalgam ( not with Mercury, I might add ).

The ' Fire Gilt ', I think is now impossible to achieve because of, as you pointed out, H. & S. I think so, India will probably do it for you, they dip circuit boards in boiling mercury there to remove the gold solder etc., but don't bother with masks aprons etc...

The only way I can describe the difference is in the simplest of terms, ie, gilding, whether you want to call it electro-plated gilt and gold-plate which to me is a different end result, does that make sense ?? Definately, although a different process I think the result could look very similar, I think plating ends up thicker and perhaps more lustrous?

Peter,

When I first realised that I had made a right cock-up of Davids collar badge, I looked at buying the gold leaf ( as you say, it's well advertised on ebay ), the cost with the base fixative and perhaps a very soft brush etc was pretty much the same as it cost me to have my badge......re-gilded.......sorry Tom, I have to call it that !!

When I first posed the question to my jeweller, he did say he could get the ' fire-gilt ' effect but as you can see, it was not the required efect, no problem for my badge because it was just a basic gilt finish in the first place but for David's collar, it was all wrong, basically, I would say yes, using gold leaf may well be Tim's solution to finishing his buttons etc.

That's it, I'm going to bore someone !!

Dave.

These people offer a gilding service for jewellery, so badges may be doable.... http://www.hirschfelds.co.uk/Services.htm

DIY courses: http://www.emagister.co.uk/gilding_c...-tps267895.htm

How to gild, but warns it's extremely unsafe to try the original methods.... http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/depletio.htm

ATB<
Tom

[gwrco]

Hi gents,
....many thanks for the replies. I've emailed Hirschfields, and wait for their response! The museum wants to keep costs as low as possible, and i can understand that, but i would have to justify the expense of getting the badges & buttons gilded/re-gilded, compared to spraying them with plastikote gold leaf spray paint - lol!

tim