Leicestershire Rgt.

[nottuh13]

Guys thought i throw my hat in the ring with some pictures of mine.
Mark

[nottuh13]

Another couple of mine for your viewing.
Mark

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi Paul

Many thanks for the kind words. Yes I have put in a fair bit of ‘thinking time’ in where my Leicesters badges are concerned, and I think the restricted way I’m collecting badges for one regiment for a specific period has the prospect of bringing some fresh insights into things. Unfortunately I really haven’t been able to devote as much time as I would have liked to researching things, and in the short term it seems unlikely I’ll get much chance either what with the way things are here. Still, like I say, I’ll continue to collect as many variations of the Leicesters as I can, and hopefully with the help of the Forum will come to a better understanding of the history of such badges for the benefit of all.

Best regards

Martin

['Ticker' Riley]

Hello Mark

Nice collection of Leicesters badges you have there, particularly the post-1946 Dolwer one; though as I’m not actively collecting after the adoption of ‘Royal’ into the Regiment’s title I sadly don’t know much about these particular badges. I see you have one of the ‘fat-cat’ design as well, like the one Tony put up in post #57, but yours has the small round sweat holes that I have occasionally seen on these badges. You also have a couple of good ‘kitten-faced’ badges in your second posting, but, as I said in my PM to you, both your territorials badges are of a kind I’d been led to believe were modern repros (see one I have in post #26 and which I bought before I knew better). Intriguingly though I notice one of yours does actually have sweat holes, which I must admit I haven’t seen with this design before. Could it be genuine, or have the holes been added to make it seem like something it’s not? Maybe someone else on the Forum has some views about this, as I’d certainly be interested to know more about this particular badge of yours.

Best regards

Martin

[Tim B.]

An older thread here but I prefer to add to an established thread on a particular subject instead of starting another stand alone "what do you think" type thread. As this appears to be the thread with the most Leicestershire examples posted, I thought it would be the best thread to add to.

Here's my example that I purchased prior to joining the forum and it appears to be a correct period match to WW1. By what I've read thus far, the five oblong sweat holes and short slider are circa 1908 - 1916, is that correct?

Really nice details!

Tim

[Alan O]

Tim,

It's a great badge but the dates are not so clear cut. The regular battalion badge was sealed in 1897 and replaced the collar badge which had previously been worn in the side cap. The short slider was introduced circa 1906 to replace the longer (1903 slider) which was now too long for the new (1905) peaked cap.

1916 the badge goes all brass but orders after 1919 would have returned to bi-metal ones. Your badge could be 1920s or even '30s.

However yours is a good, but not exact, match for the Victorian lugged one pictured below.

[mooke07]

Nice original Leicrster's badge Tim and concur with Alan's notes on it. Wide date range but no reason to believe it certainly could have been worn during the Great War.

Cheers Dean

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi Tim

As Alan and Dean have already said, you have a nice genuine Leicesters badge there. Though, as also pointed out, whilst it could well be from the First World War, it could equally be later. Having said that, I personally would be happy with it in a collection of Great War badges. Although I do not yet know the manufacturer of this variant, a fellow Leicesters collector told me it is commonly called the ‘kitten-faced’ type - to be honest it remind me more of a Scottish wild-cat than a kitten! In case you’re interested, the earlier badge Alan showed is the Firmin & Sons maker’s type.

Best regards

Martin

[Tim B.]

Thanks guys!

Well, it certainly looks nice and I don't think I can go too far wrong by adding it to the victory medal for my guy that was in the Leicestershire Regt.

Looking at his SWB card, I see he served in both Leicestershire and York and Lancaster Regt's. I suspect he was in the Leicestershire first as his medals are engraved with the LEIC R. I need to do more research on the guy and try to find his BWM and SWB.

Here's a manufacturing question. I noticed small edge striations along the edges of the scroll and was somewhat surprised to see this as the piece is so small. Because of the size, I think a traditional die stamping would have broken these due to the force applied. Were they in fact die forged?

Tim

[Tim B.]

Martin,

I meant to ask you, as my tiger has the non-voided tail, I suspect its later production than those with the voided tail; less time producing it?

Tim

['Ticker' Riley]

Hello Tim

Yes I think your Leicesters badge would go well with the Victory Medal you have for Private Charles Harris, though you’ll probably need one for the York and Lancaster Regiment as well won’t you? I have my grandfather’s Victory Medal, but not his War Medal. Sadly both disappeared from the family home in Bournbrook a number of years ago, only for the Victory Medal to reappear on ebay! I suspect his War Medal might have been melted down, but I live in hope of rediscovering it someday.

Anyhow, regarding the marks on the edges of the ‘Leicestershire’ scroll of your badge, I’m afraid I’m no expert on the manufacturing processes involved, but I wonder if these aren’t just from the finishing work? I would assume that the scroll would have been die-stamped, but then would have required cutting out from the surrounding metal sheet, and then the sharp edges finished off by hand. I might be completely wrong on this, and I’m sure someone else with more knowledge about such things will correct me.

As to the question of voiding, or non-voiding, of the tail loop, I don’t believe things are quite as simple as you might think. My own findings are that some makers seem to have consistently voided the tail loops on their Leicesters badges, whilst others never did. Yet other maker’s variants are found with voided and non-voided tails loops, and this may well be connected to hurried production during war time, or simply the result of a chronological change in their manufacture. It is something I am looking at, but I don’t have any definitive answers yet!

Best regards

Martin

[Alan O]

A non-voided Victorian era badge with lugs.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=117443

I would agree that it is maker's variation.

[Tim B.]

Hello Martin,

At first I thought it might be file finishing marks but they appear too straight, even, and consistent across the edge IMO. Look more typical of die shear marks based on what other badges I have seen over time. File marks typically are inconsistent across the edging, somewhat angled and vary in spacing. Either way, nice work on a rather small item!

Regarding the timeline, you make a good point, with various manufacturers its hard to say 100% until all the makers are identified. I put my thoughts in context with what we see on the economy issues being non-voided for the most part and what I also see on other (namely U.S.) badges, where less time and effort on finishing work was put into the final product in order to meet contract numbers and timely fulfillment needs.

Just my thoughts here.

Re: Harris; Yes, I actually have a Yorks & Lancs on it's way currently and am looking forward to adding it to Harris' victory medal. I have considered the possibility of both his BWM and SWB being melted down for silver scrap, but like you am hoping I eventually come across one or both items. Always something to look for...

Last note, is it my eyes or is there a die flaw on the center tiger, running from the left leg to the tip of the tail?

Thank you!
Tim

[Tim B.]

Originally Posted by Alan O

A non-voided Victorian era badge with lugs.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=117443

I would agree that it is maker's variation.

Yes, I see a nice looking Victorian era piece with lugs and with a voided tail currently for sale. Look almost identical. Hard to say at this point I guess.

Thanks,

Tim

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi Tim

You make some good points about time constraints on makers in order to fulfill contacts, though, like I say, I’m afraid I haven’t any definitive answers myself about voiding versus non-voiding in regard to the Leicesters badges. I must say, however, that I don’t recall seeing a Leicesters badge with areas other than the tail loop being left unvoided, such as that between the tiger’s back legs. Mind, the tail loop would be the more awkward part of the design to void, so I can quite understand some makers not bothering with this.

On the question of a possible die flaw running across the front of your tiger, I can’t say I’ve noticed this on any of my ‘kitten-faced’ ones, but when I can I will look again at them with this in mind. Having said that, could it just be some damage to your badge? It looks like the front of the bottom scroll seems to have taken a knock, in between the ‘L’ and the ‘E’ of Leicestershire?

Best regards

Martin