RIR Collar badge

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

I have been trying to match shoulder titles to collar badges, etc - is this the correct RIR collar badge?

[John Mulcahy]

Stanley

that is a collar badge to the 5th Royal Irish Lancers. In the period up to 1922 only Officers wore collar badges in the Royal Irish Rifles. Two different designs were worn , one on OSD , another pattern on mess dress.

I do not have access to my photos for now to post the OSD collar badge - no doubt one will be posted within the next few hours by either myself or another.

John

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

I have added the collar badge to the appropriate album. I imagine that the 5th Royal Irish Lancers collar badge must have been very similar to the Ulster Defence Regiment collar badge - albeit with a King George V style crown.

[John Mulcahy]

Stanley

The RIR did not wear collar badges in full dress. I find no evidence that O/R wore any collar badges until the early 1960's

Churchill in his otherwise superb book on collar badges seems (to me) to get it very wrong for the RIR. He claims that the FSC cap badge (on the left below) was also worn as a collar badge, I find zero evidence for this and you never find a right facing (as viewed) version.

The design shown 2 from left was introduced for Officer's OSD in about 1902, I have seen at least 3 die variations (2 of which are shown here in this non matched pair), that pattern was also worn by the Liverpool Irish officers. There is ample photographc evidence of it in use throughout the great war in OSD, but never by other ranks.

it was replaced some time after 1922 for officers by the design shown 3rd from left again for OSD .

In mess dress officers wore a larger version of the cord boss mount in facing pairs, one is nicely illustrated in the 1911 dress regulations.

I have copies of memos from the Hon Col to the WO during the 1930's and 40's which confirm no collar badges are worn by O/R.

Collar badges were adopted by all ranks when the regiment was badged as North Irish Brigade in the early 1960's, see 4th from left, BB for all ranks and chrome for pipers. I do not know if the 6th Bn (which stayed badged as RUR) wore them.

Thus as displayed in this image they may be in correct. Note also the image 2nd from left shows officers collars with O/R Cap badge, button and title. Officers wore the KC cord coss badge in OSD with these collars.

This is my take on the wearing of collar badges by the regiment as a result of my research. I would welcome all comments or evidence to the contrary.

John

The 5th lancers badge is almost identical to the 8H badge which is in bi-metal and indeed very similiar to the UDR as you state

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

Thank you. John, for your very full reply, which seems entirely convincing. Collar badges are a mystery to me, and I am learning a great deal from this site - it is specially gratifying to find that there is much interest in the Irish regiments.